Wall progress thread


O'Sullivan Bere

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I understood, that if President Trump used a State of emergency (SOE) to build the wall, it could set a precedent so that the Dems on a future date could use a SOE to try to change the climate. I don't think this is the case. It seems he has the power to do it.

I can tell you for sure that in Ireland's planning system, an SEA, Environmental Impact Statement and a habitats assessment for big projects is required. The requirement is especially more strict for transboundary projects which the wall would be.
The requirement does not apply to national defense projects. So Ireland can build something for defense with ordinary simple planning permission and no EU assessments at all.

I presume these same laws apply on principle in the US, so he has the option. It is unlikely the Dems would get away with calling climate a national defense issue. Check this out.


Politico: Path Clears for Trump Declaring National Emergency
As an FYI, here's an opening primer of the law and the issues that will likely arise if he tries that avenue:

Could Donald Trump declare a national emergency for a border wall? Here's what we know - Politifact

Legal obstacles await if Trump declares emergency for wall - The Hill
EXPLAINER-Trump risks legal fight with emergency threat on wall - CNBC

Obviously one of the many issues that will arise is where the line gets crossed from use to misuse of the applicable law, e.g., if he can do this for that, could a left winger POTUS use the same tactic for health care, gun control and climate change agendas, etc.
 

valamhic

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As an FYI, here's an opening primer of the law and the issues that will likely arise if he tries that avenue:

Could Donald Trump declare a national emergency for a border wall? Here's what we know - Politifact

Legal obstacles await if Trump declares emergency for wall - The Hill
EXPLAINER-Trump risks legal fight with emergency threat on wall - CNBC

Obviously one of the many issues that will arise is where the line gets crossed from use to misuse of the applicable law, e.g., if he can do this for that, could a left winger POTUS use the same tactic for health care, gun control and climate change agendas, etc.
You did not read the Breitbart article, the wall can be done for defense purposes. There would have to be a defense reason and I see no obstacle to the defense reason. Climate etc is not defense.
 

President Bartlet

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Crap! They are drug smugglers they will find another a way - you are a fool if you think a wall would stop them
 

Sync

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Shows need for Wall.

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How? The Dem (And GOP) position is that the vast majority of drugs come through the border passes. They want to increase the security at the border passes. How does a massive amount of drugs being caught at a border pass support the wall argument?
 

Dame_Enda

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How? The Dem (And GOP) position is that the vast majority of drugs come through the border passes. They want to increase the security at the border passes. How does a massive amount of drugs being caught at a border pass support the wall argument?
But 40% of drugs don't come through legal ports of entry. If you increase security in some places but not others, it will be like a game of whackamole because they will come in through the unguarded areas. Doh.
 

Sync

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But 40% of drugs don't come through legal ports of entry. If you increase security in some places but not others, it will be like a game of whackamole because they will come in through the unguarded areas. Doh.
That's not true, but it also wasn't the question. How does this story add credence to the wall argument?
 

Dame_Enda

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That's not true, but it also wasn't the question. How does this story add credence to the wall argument?
CNN has repeatedly said that 60% of drugs coming through the southern border come through legal ports of entry. Well obviously the corrollary of that is that 40% don't.
 

Sync

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CNN has repeatedly said that 60% of drugs coming through the southern border come through legal ports of entry. Well obviously the corrollary of that is that 40% don't.
I'm sure you have the link to support that.
The US govt disagree and have the vast majority of siezed drugs coming from the legal ports https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/cbp-enforcement-statistics

You've got the head of CBP saying they mostly come from there, and you've got the drug dealers themselves who, when caught and under penalty of life imprisonment for lying, all say that they target the legal crossing points.

Traffickers at El Chapo trial say they typically smuggled drugs through legal checkpoints along border | TheHill

But maybe the Dems, the GOP, the people who catch the drugs, the guy who oversaw the operation and the people who transported the drugs are all wrong. Trump's right. And obviously catching a bunch of drugs at a legal border crossing is an argument to focus resources away from the legal border crossing.
 

O'Sullivan Bere

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Shows need for Wall.

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To the contrary, it occurred at a port of entry.
254-pound fentanyl seizure sets record at Nogales border crossing - azcentral

But 40% of drugs don't come through legal ports of entry. If you increase security in some places but not others, it will be like a game of whackamole because they will come in through the unguarded areas. Doh.
Here's the stats from the CBP.
According to U.S. Customs and Border Protection statistics [link provided therein], 90 percent of heroin seized along the border, 88 percent of cocaine, 87 percent of methamphetamine, and 80 percent of fentanyl in the first 11 months of the 2018 fiscal year was caught trying to be smuggled in at legal crossing points.
Fact-checking Trump officials: Most drugs enter US through legal ports of entry, not vast, open border - USA Today
 

O'Sullivan Bere

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You did not read the Breitbart article, the wall can be done for defense purposes. There would have to be a defense reason and I see no obstacle to the defense reason. Climate etc is not defense.
I didn't read it (if you link it I will), but by your summation of it, it seems like an opinion piece. I merely linked informational links so the subject's playing field can be grasped. It's not limited to 'defence' in the way it seems you're believing....it deals with the topic of emergencies.

Obviously a key issue is how broad the law will be permitted to go. If it can so broadly interpreted to allow what Trump claims, then it's easy to do similarly for climate change. For example,

With the disclaimer that he thought it was a bad idea, Femia said there might be an opening for an emergency declaration on climate change if a future president faced a series of climate-fueled ecological disasters.

"It would only be invoked if you were talking about major direct impact on the United States from multiple storms, one after another, coinciding with major wildfires ... all happening in a short span of time, all happening with a high degree of certainty of climatic changes," said Femia, whose nonpartisan group advocates for policies that combat climate change and the security risks that go along with it.

In that scenario, he could see a future White House taking steps to nationalize large parts of the energy industry in an effort to reduce carbon emissions. It's a move, he added, that could lead to the replacement or closure of power plants that emit the most carbon, such as those that run on coal.

Another possibility: the forced removal of people who live in high-risk areas, such as floodplains or the coasts, Femia added.
. . .
The National Emergencies Act gives the president the ability to shore up industrial shortfalls, which could be used to expand access to clean energy, Farber said.

That could include an expansion of battery and electric vehicle production as well as loan guarantees for the renewable energy industry, he noted. Restrictions could be placed on automakers to reduce greenhouse gas emissions from vehicles. And the president could invoke the International Emergency Economic Powers Act to address "any unusual and extraordinary threat," such as companies and foreign countries that sell fossil fuels, Farber said.
This is what a climate emergency declaration looks like - E&E News
 

O'Sullivan Bere

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. . .But maybe the Dems, the GOP, the people who catch the drugs, the guy who oversaw the operation and the people who transported the drugs are all wrong. Trump's right. And obviously catching a bunch of drugs at a legal border crossing is an argument to focus resources away from the legal border crossing.
Strategic fencing provides a measure of value and it's already done on the US-Mexico border where sensible, but building the 'Great Wall of Trump' is a fool's monument. That includes the unintended consequences.

Americans spent roughly $1 trillion on illegal substances between 2000 and 2010, and it's gotten worse since then with the always expanding list of 'new and improved' drugs. Drug lords regularly feature on the world's wealthiest people lists and the scope of global involvement from the local street dealers and gangs to the lords are self-evident.

Such temptation and organisation has the money, motive and manpower to get around the 'Great Wall of Trump' and we're not just talking about busting through, scaling over or tunneling under it. They'll use catapult devices, drones, balloons, small planes and other crafts to fly the products over it directly, use the ports of entry, parasitically attach it to the bottom of ships for divers to retrieve at the destination, use boats, mini-submarines and other water craft to sail around it for trawling or landing elsewhere, use stealth measures to mask detection for any kind of entry, use the vast Canadian border, illicit drug flights, use mules for international commercial flights, use the postal services, infiltrate, bribe and/or extort border and customs officials, military other government transport personnel, and commercial carrier personnel, etc.

It's the cheap and inhumane cost of enslaving the vulnerable and/or using expendable pawns to carry drugs through a large desert area or over the Rio Grande that results in that one tool in the smuggling chest.

It's far easier for border guards to detect smugglers using that mode given its inefficiencies. Make the dealers invest the increased costs and efforts of using more efficient ways to do it and it will be harder to catch drug smugglers.
 
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Dame_Enda

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Looks very likely theres going to be a national emergency declaration. Trump has already dismissed the border security talks as a "waste of time". However McConnell has reportedly warned him against it. Reports there may be enough votes in the Senate to oppose the declaration, though not a veto proof majority. Graham seems to be in favour of one though. Senator Roy Blunt seems against. Some Repubicans say they fear it would set a precedent that could be used by Democratic presidents in future on issues like climate change.
 

Dame_Enda

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Fox correctly just pointed out CNN 'fact checkers' are wrong when they say crime didn't drop after the fence was built in El Paso. CNN cherry picked by starting the clock to when the fence was authorised, rather than when it was built. In fact crime dropped 20% after it was built.
 

owedtojoy

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Fox correctly just pointed out CNN 'fact checkers' are wrong when they say crime didn't drop after the fence was built in El Paso. CNN cherry picked by starting the clock to when the fence was authorised, rather than when it was built. In fact crime dropped 20% after it was built.
Show us the data.

Fox News are bigger liars than CNN, besides being the State Communications Channel. Few El Paso citizens agree with Trump, who is a pathological liar anyway.

El Paso is one of the most crime-free cities in America.


 

owedtojoy

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