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War on terrorism, a pattern?


Samell

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Watching the program last night about the sinking of the USS Maine. It turns out that it was an accident but back in the day it was all the excuse the US needed to attack the Spanish colonies in the Caribbean and Pacific.

Blaming the Spanish for a terrorist attack then going to war and effectively taking over the Spanish territories of Cuba, Puerto Rico and the Philippines.

Sound familiar to G.W's excuses?
 


Rango

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It brings to mind the US ship that was "attacked" in the gulf of Tonkin. It suited the policy to escalate the Vietnam campaign.
 

Spanner Island

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FFS... :roll:

Mama's taking us to the ZOO tomorrow... ZOO tomorrow... ZOO tomorrow...

Mama's taking us to the ZOO tomorrow, where I hope we'll see this thread...
 

Kevin Parlon

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Why do you think 9/11 happenned
The gulf of Tonkin incident had some genuine confusion surrounding it. It was exploited. But it wasn't a confected setup. 9/11 happened because 18 hi-jackers and their network of co-islamofacists decided that carrying it out would be a glorious act furthering their cause.

Some people are so determined not to see the threat violent islamic extremism poses and so determined to see the US as nothing other than a mindless monster that reality gives way to conspiracy, group-think and paranoia.
 

Hitch 22

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Watching the program last night about the sinking of the USS Maine. It turns out that it was an accident but back in the day it was all the excuse the US needed to attack the Spanish colonies in the Caribbean and Pacific.

Blaming the Spanish for a terrorist attack then going to war and effectively taking over the Spanish territories of Cuba, Puerto Rico and the Philippines.

Sound familiar to G.W's excuses?
And I suppose Donald Duck shot JFK?
 

Thac0man

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twit taa woo
Watching the program last night about the sinking of the USS Maine. It turns out that it was an accident but back in the day it was all the excuse the US needed to attack the Spanish colonies in the Caribbean and Pacific.

Blaming the Spanish for a terrorist attack then going to war and effectively taking over the Spanish territories of Cuba, Puerto Rico and the Philippines.

Sound familiar to G.W's excuses?
Only if Iraq were made the 51st US state, and Afghanistan the 52nd. I suspect that history will have to wait on a verdict though, as the affects of US foreign policy moves made under GW Bush have yet run their course. Hasty first draft history has already fallen short.

The long term affects of what the US did under Bush will take years to play out. Will future history give credit to Bush for the Arab Spring? At this stage we are still to close to events to make that call, but it will be an issue. What is apparent is that US foreign policy moves, and subsequent limited commitments, have freed up the US foriegn policy to a large extent. Just because we live in the age of 24 hour news television does not mean that the rule governing how great powers act has changed.

In the context of the US/Spanich conflict you mention, the US may well have felt completely justified in attacking a power they saw no different from the British empire they also defeated. Certainly the US did make agressive moves towards Spanish interests in Mexico and in the process took Texas and won California. No apology is due the Mexican monarchy when historical factors are taken into account. Similarly few Western historians will hold a candle for Baathism or the Taliban. Not if they want to retain any credabiltiy at any rate. This infers that the latittude the US has to act, as long as it wins, is very substantial. The old addage about victors writing the history books comes to mind.
 

BlackLion

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ahhh it's not just america it been ever super power and empire since the dawn of time from the invasion of troy to Iraq and will beyond.
 

Kommunist

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It's in the Oxford history of US foreign policy since foundation too, can recommend.
 

McTell

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No
Americans love the shooting range, hunting, paintball, owning lots of guns; so tomahawk strikes and drone attacks are just a part of that culture. Nothing personal.
 

Argala

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Some people are so determined not to see the threat violent islamic extremism poses and so determined to see the US as nothing other than a mindless monster that reality gives way to conspiracy, group-think and paranoia.
And what threat does it pose? Do you genuinely believe that western liberal capitalism is in any real danger of being destroyed by militant Islam? Do you really see a British or an American Sharia law state? What threat do you think they actually pose? How many successful attacks have they made on Western soil since 9/11?

Liberalism needs an enemy in order to justify its expansion around the world which is really just an excuse to create new markets. To simplify it, the US mission in Iraq wasn't about creating democracy, deterring Islamic extremism (like the extremism of Western ally Saudi Arabia for example) or toppling a dictator (Saudi Arabia again), it was about setting up as many McDonalds restaurants as possible. These other factors may have helped people feel better about the war, but Bush wouldn't have went in if it wasn't going to be profitable for the people pulling his strings, simple as. You might call it paranoia, but when trillions of dollars are at stake, people are willing to do some fairly snakey things.

This isn't a clash of civilisations it's a clash of wallets and Al Qaeda's wallet is a lot smaller than Obama's.

ahhh it's not just america it been ever super power and empire since the dawn of time from the invasion of troy to Iraq and will beyond.
I agree, my problem is that modern imperialism hides behind a veil of righteousness which so many people buy into.
 

Pep4321

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It brings to mind the US ship that was "attacked" in the gulf of Tonkin. It suited the policy to escalate the Vietnam campaign.
Its called the Hegelian Dialectic, its a tactic thats been used since Roman times.You create an artificial crisis then propose a solution that furthers your own agenda.
No point bringing stuff like that up on these boards though as there is a morbid fear here and in the country as a whole, of conspiracy theories. Its seems to be a thing with Irish people they seem to be one of the most naive nations on earth.I remember a Poll in the Indo a few years back where only 32% of Irish people believed that there was a conspiracy behind the Kennedy assasination, the lowest % of any country polled.In the US the same poll showed 83% of people believe that the official story was a lie.

Its the same naivety that allowed the Irish political elite to screw the people of Ireland for so long, and they are still doing it.

Prior to 911 the average interception time for rogue or distressed aircraft was 14 minutes, yet on the morning of 911 four known hijacked aircraft were allowed to fly unheaded through US airspace for nearly two hours and not a single jet was scrambled,you dont have to be a conspiracy theorist to work out that there was something fishy going on.
 
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mhagain

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The gulf of Tonkin incident had some genuine confusion surrounding it. It was exploited. But it wasn't a confected setup. 9/11 happened because 18 hi-jackers and their network of co-islamofacists decided that carrying it out would be a glorious act furthering their cause.

Some people are so determined not to see the threat violent islamic extremism poses and so determined to see the US as nothing other than a mindless monster that reality gives way to conspiracy, group-think and paranoia.
As opposed to US christofascism and US violent christian extremism? Get some perspective man - they're all at it, just that the US is within our comfort zones so we tend to overlook their worst excesses.
 

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