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Was Austerity even tried here and what actually happened here in the last five years?


Congalltee

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 10, 2009
Messages
6,209
Has austerity failed in Ireland or was it even tried?

Running a deficit of 7.6% after five "austerity" budgets does not suggest that things have been austere for many. There have been cuts, some tax rises and reduction in services but there has also been:
- huge transfers of wealth from future tax payers to senior bond holders
- corporations paying an effective tax rate on their €70bn profits of around 6%
- retiring public sector workers retired early on the same day with tax free pensions subsidized by workers who are junior in the public sector (and therefore paying through the nose for their own) or by 1m private sector workers who have no pension
- €11bn of tax reliefs remain intact
- interest rates remain very low
- our politicians remain the highest paid in Europe
- the social welfare wedge has remained in tact administered through over 50 different schemes
- students will have to emigrate because we don't have any jobs for certain graduates but the State continues to pay third level fees across the board
- instead of adding €165 to the property tax a new utility charge will be set up with its own administration, collection costs, prosecution, advertising costs with the only beneficiaries being the bureaucrats
- Coillte, ESB, Bord Gais (with Nama and Irish Water to follow) are to be privatized and their prices are being kept artificially high to make it more investible (this country's record on privatization is very poor eg Eircom, Dublin's waste management)
- taxes remain low relative to GDP
- many people pay three health charges ie tax, insurance and charges on delivery
- fee paying schools receive capital grants and their teachers are paid by the state
- lotto grants are used as electoral slush fund to private clubs eg tennis (this stupid tax is also to be privatized)
- incremental pay increases are only now being discussed
- legal services bill remains a bill and the State pays half a billion in legal fees.
- Nama is paying huge fees to professionals

Who has been a winner from "austerity - Irish style"?

We know who have lost.
 


YouKnowWhatIMeanLike

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 13, 2011
Messages
7,225
Has austerity failed in Ireland or was it even tried?

Running a deficit of 7.6% after five "austerity" budgets does not suggest that things have been austere for many. There have been cuts, some tax rises and reduction in services but there has also been:
- huge transfers of wealth from future tax payers to senior bond holders
- corporations paying an effective tax rate on their €70bn profits of around 6%
- retiring public sector workers retired early on the same day with tax free pensions subsidized by workers who are junior in the public sector (and therefore paying through the nose for their own) or by 1m private sector workers who have no pension
- €11bn of tax reliefs remain intact
- interest rates remain very low
- our politicians remain the highest paid in Europe
- the social welfare wedge has remained in tact administered through over 50 different schemes
- students will have to emigrate because we don't have any jobs for certain graduates but the State continues to pay third level fees across the board
- instead of adding €165 to the property tax a new utility charge will be set up with its own administration, collection costs, prosecution, advertising costs with the only beneficiaries being the bureaucrats
- Coillte, ESB, Bord Gais (with Nama and Irish Water to follow) are to be privatized and their prices are being kept artificially high to make it more investible (this country's record on privatization is very poor eg Eircom, Dublin's waste management)
- taxes remain low relative to GDP
- many people pay three health charges ie tax, insurance and charges on delivery
- fee paying schools receive capital grants and their teachers are paid by the state
- lotto grants are used as electoral slush fund to private clubs eg tennis (this stupid tax is also to be privatized)
- incremental pay increases are only now being discussed
- legal services bill remains a bill and the State pays half a billion in legal fees.
- Nama is paying huge fees to professionals

Who has been a winner from "austerity - Irish style"?

We know who have lost.
depositors got awarded 100 cent in the euro plus interest. clearly they winners given that they should have been wiped out at over 100k.

would not be surprised to see a shrine being erected in BALLSbridge to honor Brian "Blanket Guarantee" Lenihan at some point.
 

shiel

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 14, 2011
Messages
17,034
No reference in the OP to the fact that the country was bankrupted during the Celtic tiger period by the decisions of a small number of its most powerful citizens cheer led by most of the media.

Many of the original architects of the bust and their cheer leaders are now all over the media complaining about the 'austerity' which they caused.
 

YouKnowWhatIMeanLike

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 13, 2011
Messages
7,225
No reference in the OP to the fact that the country was bankrupted during the Celtic tiger period by the decisions of a small number of its most powerful citizens cheer led by most of the media.

Many of the original architects of the bust and their cheer leaders are now all over the media complaining about the 'austerity' which they caused.
Sitting on the sidelines, cribbing and moaning ... ;)
 

Congalltee

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 10, 2009
Messages
6,209
No reference in the OP to the fact that the country was bankrupted during the Celtic tiger period by the decisions of a small number of its most powerful citizens cheer led by most of the media.

Many of the original architects of the bust and their cheer leaders are now all over the media complaining about the 'austerity' which they caused.
Why would I make this point when you'd come along with your single transferable post? Besides this post is about the "cure" not the cause of our ills.
 

P Ryan

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 25, 2011
Messages
3,509
Why would I make this point when you'd come along with your single transferable post? Besides this post is about the "cure" not the cause of our ills.
I wonder if he's payed by the hour, or per post?
 

IbrahaimMohamad

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 5, 2013
Messages
4,221
Has austerity failed in Ireland or was it even tried?

Running a deficit of 7.6% after five "austerity" budgets does not suggest that things have been austere for many. There have been cuts, some tax rises and reduction in services but there has also been:
- huge transfers of wealth from future tax payers to senior bond holders
- corporations paying an effective tax rate on their €70bn profits of around 6%
- retiring public sector workers retired early on the same day with tax free pensions subsidized by workers who are junior in the public sector (and therefore paying through the nose for their own) or by 1m private sector workers who have no pension
- €11bn of tax reliefs remain intact
- interest rates remain very low
- our politicians remain the highest paid in Europe
- the social welfare wedge has remained in tact administered through over 50 different schemes
- students will have to emigrate because we don't have any jobs for certain graduates but the State continues to pay third level fees across the board
- instead of adding €165 to the property tax a new utility charge will be set up with its own administration, collection costs, prosecution, advertising costs with the only beneficiaries being the bureaucrats
- Coillte, ESB, Bord Gais (with Nama and Irish Water to follow) are to be privatized and their prices are being kept artificially high to make it more investible (this country's record on privatization is very poor eg Eircom, Dublin's waste management)
- taxes remain low relative to GDP
- many people pay three health charges ie tax, insurance and charges on delivery
- fee paying schools receive capital grants and their teachers are paid by the state
- lotto grants are used as electoral slush fund to private clubs eg tennis (this stupid tax is also to be privatized)
- incremental pay increases are only now being discussed
- legal services bill remains a bill and the State pays half a billion in legal fees.
- Nama is paying huge fees to professionals

Who has been a winner from "austerity - Irish style"?

We know who have lost.
Borrowing 20 billion a year to support spending is not Austerity!
 

sauntersplash

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 3, 2009
Messages
3,464
I've instituted pretty severe personal austerity measures, does that count? It's going pretty well, I've sacrificed a few dozen hungover Sunday mornings and now I have enough money under my bed to pay my rent for a year.

I know, I should be punished for this sort of prudence, but I did it anyway.
 

shiel

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 14, 2011
Messages
17,034
Why would I make this point when you'd come along with your single transferable post? Besides this post is about the "cure" not the cause of our ills.
But you are missing the point.

The cure is going to be sabotaged by the people who did the damage and their cheer leading buddies in the media.
 

mctree

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 15, 2012
Messages
970
corporations paying an effective tax rate on their €70bn profits of around 6%
- the social welfare wedge has remained in tact administered through over 50 different schemes
- instead of adding €165 to the property tax a new utility charge will be set up with its own administration, collection costs, prosecution, advertising costs with the only beneficiaries being the bureaucrats
- Coillte, ESB, Bord Gais (with Nama and Irish Water to follow) are to be privatized and their prices are being kept artificially high to make it more investible (this country's record on privatization is very poor eg Eircom, Dublin's waste management)
- taxes remain low relative to GDP
- many people pay three health charges ie tax, insurance and charges on delivery
- fee paying schools receive capital grants and their teachers are paid by the state
- lotto grants are used as electoral slush fund to private clubs eg tennis (this stupid tax is also to be privatized)
- incremental pay increases are only now being discussed
- legal services bill remains a bill and the State pays half a billion in legal fees.
- Nama is paying huge fees to professionals
.
I agree that the corporations should be made to pay the 12.5%.

The problem with the new TV/Broadcasting charge being addewd onto the property tax is that only property owners would have to pay. That would not be fair.

Legal costs, Social welfare costs, Nama etc are all areas that could be changed. Tax reliefs too.

True austerity has only really hit the newly unemployed. Not the lifetime wasters and long termer.
 

IbrahaimMohamad

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 5, 2013
Messages
4,221
I agree that the corporations should be made to pay the 12.5%.

The problem with the new TV/Broadcasting charge being addewd onto the property tax is that only property owners would have to pay. That would not be fair.

Legal costs, Social welfare costs, Nama etc are all areas that could be changed. Tax reliefs too.

True austerity has only really hit the newly unemployed. Not the lifetime wasters and long termer.
We need to slash social welfare to an affordable level, and provide a real stimilus for people to take jobs.
 

IbrahaimMohamad

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 5, 2013
Messages
4,221
what jobs?
Many people moved to Ireland to take up jobs that Irish People refused to take as they were better off on benefits, and having their free time for nixers or leisure.
 
Last edited:

P Ryan

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 25, 2011
Messages
3,509
I've instituted pretty severe personal austerity measures, does that count? It's going pretty well, I've sacrificed a few dozen hungover Sunday mornings and now I have enough money under my bed to pay my rent for a year.

I know, I should be punished for this sort of prudence, but I did it anyway.
keeping money out of the bank will probably be regarded as social deviance by the gov soon enough ;)
 

Kevin Doyle

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 9, 2007
Messages
11,066
Many peopel moved to Ireland to take up jobs that Irish People refused to take as they were better off on benefits, and having their free time for nixers or leisure.
what jobs?
 

P Ryan

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 25, 2011
Messages
3,509
Many peopel moved to Ireland to take up jobs that Irish People refused to take as they were better off on benefits, and having their free time for nixers or leisure.
lol Mr. Doyle is probably one of those who regarded any job where you had to get your hands dirty as below them.
I know the type.
 

Kevin Doyle

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 9, 2007
Messages
11,066
lol Mr. Doyle is probably one of those who regarded any job where you had to get your hands dirty as below them.
I know the type.
Stop talking out yer arse and tell me where the jobs are that will justify incentivising people off the dole
 

niall78

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 10, 2010
Messages
11,283
Stop talking out yer arse and telly me where the jobs are that will justify incentivising people off the dole
All the jobs ........ you know .......... all the jobs the 450k+ people now on the dole left for a laugh four or five years ago.

There's hundreds of thousands of them out there - our problem isn't no jobs it is incentivising people to take up the nearly limitless work opportunities available at the moment.
 

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