Was clerical sex abuse in Ireland just a nine days' wonder?

L'Chaim

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I'm only asking because I can't believe that, as a country, we seem to have moved on from the clerical abuse scandals. It was only earlier on this year that we had reports detailing the level of sex abuse carried out by the religious orders in Ireland against children. Bishops were resigning and there were protests outside churches etc.etc. But it all seems so long ago now. Move on to the next scandal, nothing to see here any more.

Are Irish people embarrassed about these sex abuse scandals? Are we happy to just "tut tut" about now? Are we happy to just leave things in the past? It seems to me that the church has, to all intents and purposes, gotten away with the abuse and the hiding of abuse. I can't believe that Irish people (generally) have just confined this level of abuse and responsibility for it, to history. And something that only came to light so recently. But when you look at it, the church sex abuse scandals, the famine, 1916, Civil War, war of independence etc. etc. all just seem to be taken for granted here and forgotten as quickly as possible. It's like Irish people are ashamed of their past and want to move on from it as quickly as possible. I find relegating these events to the past is nothing short of a disgrace......especially the clerical sex abuse scandals. How can Irish people just move on from such things so quickly?

Thoughts?
 


eoghanacht

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To some extent a 9 day wonder in the media - but I'd say the wider changes in attitude are real, significant and lasting.
Yep, the damage to the church is immeasurable
 

Tea Party Patriot

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Why the sudden interest by Mossad and Co. ?
I don't think his view's on Israel any more than your love affair with Stalin and the USSR have any bearing on this thread.
 

reknaw

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Well, it hasn't quite gone away from the media, you know.:cool: Just look at this article in today's Irish Times.

Ex-priest jailed for 16 years - The Irish Times - Mon, Dec 06, 2010

You couldn't make this stuff up and the article is a reminder of how unimaginably terrible it must have been for the victims in the climate in those days.

Excerpt: "When the boy started to cry [the priest] turned up the music to drown him out. Afterwards, he told the victim he would “burn in hell for all eternity” if he told anyone what had happened.

One victim, now an adult, told the court that as a result of the abuse he became mentally ill and made his first suicide attempt at 16. While the abuse was ongoing, he confided to his uncle what Walsh was doing to him. His uncle then raped him.

On hearing his evidence, Judge Frank O’Donnell commended the man. “I’ve listened to you being cross-examined, you’re an absolute stalwart," he said.

The court heard that when one boy told his parents about the abuse, they viciously beat him. “How can you say that about a man of God, a man of the cloth?” they asked him before sending him back down to Walsh who again molested him.

I sincerely hope we really are over that kind of not nine-day wonder, but multi-decade horror. But let's not relax our vigilance.:mad:
 

Tea Party Patriot

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To some extent a 9 day wonder in the media - but I'd say the wider changes in attitude are real, significant and lasting.
Agreed Cruimh the long term damage is very real and lasting. It will take the RCC 50 years to recover from it, if it ever does.
 

L'Chaim

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Yep, the damage to the church is immeasurable
Is it though? You only have to look at the TV news any night of the week and in at least one of the stories featured the TV reporter on the scene will interview the local priest, as if he was an expert or a spokesman for whatever town or village the news story is from. Now the story could be anything from a road accident, a death, the snow, a missing person, whatever. Whatever the story is, interview a priest. People are still attending mass, the hoopla about the child sex abuse has to all intents gone so quiet you'd have to wonder did it ever happen here at all. For a few weeks after the reports earlier this year, the public was bursting to hear about them and to hear from victims etc. as well as making demands on the church and the Vatican and then........nothing. We went from massive coverage and real anger of/to a real disaster to.......nothing. Carry on as before and let everything die down and forget. Is this an Irish thing or just human nature? I'm only asking because for a person with my background I can't understand why a nation's past is so quickly and deliberately forgotten and filed away not to be mentioned again. A few months ago we had a thread about the evidence of the sex abuse victims going to be destroyed. at the time I couldn't believe that such a thing could happen, but now, here, I'm not so sure. And I'm not so sure anyone would even care less
 

Luigi Vampa

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Is it though? You only have to look at the TV news any night of the week and in at least one of the stories featured the TV reporter on the scene will interview the local priest, as if he was an expert or a spokesman for whatever town or village the news story is from. Now the story could be anything from a road accident, a death, the snow, a missing person, whatever. Whatever the story is, interview a priest.
Guess what, If Ireland was 80% Jewish, then I'm sure you'd see the odd Rabii on TV. Why have you not taken it up with the BCC ? : http://www.bcc.ie/
 
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i hope that evil b@st@rd dies slowly and dies screaming.

how the ditches are not littered with the bodies of these perverts is beyond me... they deserve nothing less
 

L'Chaim

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Guess what, If Ireland was 80% Jewish, then I'm sure you'd see the odd Rabii on TV. Why have you not taken it up with the BCC ? : Broadcasting Complaints Commission
Oh I don't know about that. But if any of the victims had been Jewish the organisations that allowed this abuse to happen and attempted to cover up this abuse would be paying reparations for decades to come. And no government minister or agency would get away with fixing a seal on reparations to be paid by that organisation. That government would be paying reparations, for the state's role in the scandal too. But I don't want this to turn into a Christian Vs Jew debate. I really am struggling to understand why such a massive scandal, that happened over so long, and so recently, is forgotten so quickly
 

Mercurial

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I think irreparable harm has been done to the church due to the scandals, so in that sense I don’t think people will forget about what happened, though that’s not the same as holding everyone accountable who ought to have been.
 

Barrycelona

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Well, it hasn't quite gone away from the media, you know.:cool: Just look at this article in today's Irish Times.

Ex-priest jailed for 16 years - The Irish Times - Mon, Dec 06, 2010

You couldn't make this stuff up and the article is a reminder of how unimaginably terrible it must have been for the victims in the climate in those days.

Excerpt: "When the boy started to cry [the priest] turned up the music to drown him out. Afterwards, he told the victim he would “burn in hell for all eternity” if he told anyone what had happened.

One victim, now an adult, told the court that as a result of the abuse he became mentally ill and made his first suicide attempt at 16. While the abuse was ongoing, he confided to his uncle what Walsh was doing to him. His uncle then raped him.

On hearing his evidence, Judge Frank O’Donnell commended the man. “I’ve listened to you being cross-examined, you’re an absolute stalwart," he said.

The court heard that when one boy told his parents about the abuse, they viciously beat him. “How can you say that about a man of God, a man of the cloth?” they asked him before sending him back down to Walsh who again molested him.

I sincerely hope we really are over that kind of not nine-day wonder, but multi-decade horror. But let's not relax our vigilance.:mad:
One of the most shocking things in this case was when one of the boys went home to tell his parents what happened. What did they do, they beat him up, sent him back to the priest to apologise and then the priest abused him again.Good God how did they stand a chance. And you need a licence for a dog

It is a 9 minute wonder ie everytime we hear about an abuse case on the news, we think about it for 9 minutes and then switch off.

Ask any practising catholic how they can go to mass each sunday and not voice their opinions and they quote you the standard answer " We pray to God, not the priests.

Ask the Dept of Education why nobody was ever held accountable for facilitating the abuse and they will blame someone else.

Barry Andrews blew his chance of immortality by not standing up to the Catholic Church and by his silence he condemned even more children to a life of indignity.

When people are held accountable for their actions, it is only then that this country can begin to chhange for the better.

Going off on a tangent I cannot understand why so many orgs have not taken Govt Depts to Court and sought accountability from them.
 

rgaok

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I was always very suspicious of the Fr. Trendy, guitar-toting, singing priests type. Like that ghastly paedophile priest convicted today and that horrible, rabid Cleary was another one of them....
 

USER1234

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A American based gay rights website I visit (Joe my god) ends every week on Sunday with a section called this week in holy crimes, it contains info on several cases of religious people (priests rabbi etc) horribles crimes against children from all over the world, that have come to light or been prosecuted in the last week!!!
 
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Luigi Vampa

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Oh I don't know about that. But if any of the victims had been Jewish the organisations that allowed this abuse to happen and attempted to cover up this abuse would be paying reparations for decades to come. And no government minister or agency would get away with fixing a seal on reparations to be paid by that organisation. That government would be paying reparations, for the state's role in the scandal too. But I don't want this to turn into a Christian Vs Jew debate. I really am struggling to understand why such a massive scandal, that happened over so long, and so recently, is forgotten so quickly
Forgotten ? It's only just begun. A Murphy style report is planned for every diocese in Ireland, this issue will drip feed for years, then by the time that's over the terrible abuse suffered by some children in the missions will start coming to light, we've decades more to go of for this stuff and rightly so, all down to the appalling failure of bishops to deal with the abuse cases properly when they originally arose, but it should also be born in mind that the % prevalence of paedophilia in the general population is estimated to be between 3% and 9%, and can be estimated to be about 4 % in Catholic Priests, and it would be reasonable to assume Jewish Rabbi's run around the same %
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/andrewbrown/2009/nov/26/catholicism-child-abuse-ireland-usa
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia
 
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Green eyed monster

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Oh I don't know about that. But if any of the victims had been Jewish the organisations that allowed this abuse to happen and attempted to cover up this abuse would be paying reparations for decades to come. And no government minister or agency would get away with fixing a seal on reparations to be paid by that organisation. That government would be paying reparations, for the state's role in the scandal too. But I don't want this to turn into a Christian Vs Jew debate. I really am struggling to understand why such a massive scandal, that happened over so long, and so recently, is forgotten so quickly
There is no reason to turn this into a Jewish versus Catholic issue, why do you feel the need to do that? This is a matter for those who have been abused, the Church and the Authorities. The media have already screamed hell about this for several years now... Incidentally you are wrong in that there are plenty of Jewish child abuse scandals it's partially because Judaism isn't a monolith, therefore the blame/scandal doesn't all slide neatly upwards to focus one single person or few persons the way it does with a centralised organisation like the Catholic Church.

Brooklyn Hasidic Community Grapples With Scandal : NPR

And there has been intimidation of some Jewish people for speaking out...

Jewish Survivors of Sexual Violence Speak Out: CALL TO ACTION: Rabbi Benzion Twerski Caving in to Thugs

Benzion Twerski was pressured to quit his job investigating child sex abuse scandals in the Jewish Community.

In an hour-long interview, Rabbi Twerski stated that he resigned because he felt that his adult children were being pressured from within their Chasidic community over his public dealings with the issue of sexual abuse. He said his children asked him to resign.
Sex abuse claims against famed rabbi grip Israel | Analysis & Opinion |

A Justice Ministry spokesman said the attorney-general had asked police to consider whether there was sufficient evidence to mount a formal criminal investigation, after the organisation Takana alleged Elon had broken a promise made to fellow rabbis some years ago to limit his contacts with young men and youths.
There was another case a while back in Israel in which a Rabbi issued a religious edict to a familly not to report that an Orthodox Rabbi was abusing their young son.

It seems that the Jewish Community has far to travel on this issue as well but it seems to not be being reported very thoroughly compared to Catholic abuses, there is almost a sense that the problem belongs to some introverted communities and is theirs to settle privately, but if the intimidation of some people trying to speak out are anything to go by this approach may not be enough. I can imagine the scandal if for example, a professional health worker assigned to the Ryan report was intimidated to resign by individuals linked to the staunchly Catholic community.
 

L'Chaim

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There is no reason to turn this into a Jewish versus Catholic issue, why do you feel the need to do that? This is a matter for those who have been abused, the Church and the Authorities. The media have already screamed hell about this for several years now... Incidentally you are wrong in that there are plenty of Jewish child abuse scandals it's partially because Judaism isn't a monolith, therefore the blame/scandal doesn't all slide neatly upwards to focus one single person or few persons the way it does with a centralised organisation like the Catholic Church.

Brooklyn Hasidic Community Grapples With Scandal : NPR

And there has been intimidation of some Jewish people for speaking out...

Jewish Survivors of Sexual Violence Speak Out: CALL TO ACTION: Rabbi Benzion Twerski Caving in to Thugs

Benzion Twerski was pressured to quit his job investigating child sex abuse scandals in the Jewish Community.



Sex abuse claims against famed rabbi grip Israel | Analysis & Opinion |



There was another case a while back in Israel in which a Rabbi issued a religious edict to a familly not to report that an Orthodox Rabbi was abusing their young son.

It seems that the Jewish Community has far to travel on this issue as well but it seems to not be being reported very thoroughly compared to Catholic abuses, there is almost a sense that the problem belongs to some introverted communities and is theirs to settle privately, but if the intimidation of some people trying to speak out are anything to go by this approach may not be enough. I can imagine the scandal if for example, a professional health worker assigned to the Ryan report was intimidated to resign by individuals linked to the staunchly Catholic community.
You didn't read any of the previous posts did you? If you did you would see I was answering a question asking "If Ireland was 80% Jewish....?" and even then I was only making an observation instead of an answer. And also in that post, which you responded to I said I didn't want to turn this into a christian Vs Jew debate. And I know you didn't read the posts because then straight away you start off by saying I shouldn't turn this into a Jew Vs Catholic debate......which if you had read the post (instead of seeing Jewish poster) you would have seen. It's even in the quote of mine you posted, which shows you didn't read it. And after giving me that advise what do you do? You try and compare Ireland's clerical abuse with Israel's. You're actually the type of poster that stops me starting many new threads, for the simple reason that even though the thread I might start can be quite specific and about specific events, posters like you just have to use them to have a go at Israel. The fact that you had to go trawling through the Internet to find links to Israeli child abuse scandals to contribute to a thread specifically about the clerical sex abuse scandal in Ireland is telling. If another poster had started this thread or contributed to this thread would you have felt the urge to do that? I bet you wouldn't. Time and a place......or in this instance, not the time or place.
 


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