Was FF's Celtic Tiger Thatcherism with bells on ?

SlabMurphy

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Was Fianna Fail the 'Republican Party' Celtic Tiger a version of Thatcherism i.e. greed, greed, greed and more greed. And this coming from a party whose leader Ahern claimed " I'm one of the last socialists left in Irish politics :roll:." (December, 2004).
The clip below hits the spot for me - Warning it has bad language

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ec82YUtvZNU"]YouTube - Christy Moore - Goose Green (Taking tea with pinochet)[/ame]

So was FF's Celtic Tiger an overdose of Thatcherism with bells on ?
 
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sondagefaux

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Did Maggie Thatcher bribe the unions with large pay increases (aka 'benchmarking')?
 

SlabMurphy

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Did Maggie Thatcher bribe the unions with large pay increases (aka 'benchmarking')?
Good point and no she didn't. But I still say the 'Republican Party' Celtic Tiger a version of Thatcherism i.e. greed, greed, greed and more greed.

It had the value system of Thatcherism, greed, greed, greed.
 

Sync

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Marvellous. Just because you don't understand thatcherism or FF motivations doesn't mean the two are the same.
 

FutureTaoiseach

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No. Thatcher wouldn't have signed-up for Benchmarking in a million years, or a public-sector pay-bill of 12% of GNP. Thatcher drastically downsized the public-sector, while FF presided over an explosion in its size and costs. The Irish Left abuse the T-word like they abuse the R-word for their political-opponents. In fact - since 2002 this has essentially been a Leftwing govt in all but name. She had no time for multiculturalism and PCness, unlike the entire political-Establishment in this country. In truth, we have never had a Thatcherite party in this country (at least not since 2002). God only knows we need one. Labour's surrogates in ICTU presided (through Partnership) over the destruction of our competitiveness and created rip-off Ireland.

A Thatcherite Ireland would have:

-Privatised the ESB, Bord Gais, Bord na Mona and the state-airports and broken up their monopolies. Competition would have reduced charges and made Ireland more competitive.
-Removed the Bar Council/Law Society monopoly on legal-qualifications which would have reduced legal-fees. Look at all the lawyers in the Labour party who don't want that.
 
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johntrenchard

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No. Thatcher wouldn't have signed-up for Benchmarking in a million years, or a public-sector pay-bill of 12% of GNP. Thatcher drastrically downsized the public-sector, while FF presided over an explosion in its size and costs.
much as i disgree with your posts FT politically, in this regard you are 100% bang on.

to compare FF and Thatcher is like comparing chalk with cheese. utterly ridiculous.
 

Harmonica

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No. Thatcher wouldn't have signed-up for Benchmarking in a million years, or a public-sector pay-bill of 12% of GNP. Thatcher drastrically downsized the public-sector, while FF presided over an explosion in its size and costs.
+1.

Berties FF dealings with the unions was the exact opposite of Thatcher & it is going to be very difficult for future governments to get the unions to back down from their sense of entitlement. Berties legacy is a set of PS unions in particular who believe they set government policy.
 

goosebump

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Comparring Bertonomics to Thatcherism is an insult to Thatcherism.

Thatcher may have had iced water running through her veins, but in terms of economic development, she is argubly the most successive PM in the post-war era.

Bertie Ahern was just a knacker from Drumcondra who happend to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.
 

Sync

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Comparring Bertonomics to Thatcherism is an insult to Thatcherism.

Thatcher may have had iced water running through her veins, but in terms of economic development, she is argubly the most successive PM in the post-war era.

Bertie Ahern was just a knacker from Drumcondra who happend to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Yeah whether you like the plan or not, there was a staged, cohesive plan with a goal at its end for Thatcherism. There was no plan for Bertie apart from "get re-elected". Honestly, the only way you could see any commonality is if you don't know much about either time period.
 

Cael

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Certainly we saw a Thatcherite mentality take over FF. The whole mentality of the last ten years has been to overturn all traditional values and replace them with commodity fetishism. Building a motorway through Tara was the ultimate rebellion against ideas such as the nation, the community, history, the sacred. By doing this vandalism, FF were saying that money and those who have it are all that matters.

The sops to the trade unions should not be taken as any left leaning in FF. It was merely Realpolitik. FF calculated that it was easier to buy them off than fight them.
 

pujols

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Yeah whether you like the plan or not, there was a staged, cohesive plan with a goal at its end for Thatcherism. There was no plan for Bertie apart from "get re-elected". Honestly, the only way you could see any commonality is if you don't know much about either time period.
That "plan" rather fell apart when it met political reality though. They kept having to move the goalposts. Similar to Reagan's abandonment of reaganomics...
 

SlabMurphy

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Poor old Slab He's getting it in the chops for this one :lol:. But anyway......


No. Thatcher wouldn't have signed-up for Benchmarking in a million years, or a public-sector pay-bill of 12% of GNP. Thatcher drastically downsized the public-sector, while FF presided over an explosion in its size and costs. The Irish Left abuse the T-word like they abuse the R-word for their political-opponents. In fact - since 2002 this has essentially been a Leftwing govt in all but name. She had no time for multiculturalism and PCness, unlike the entire political-Establishment in this country. In truth, we have never had a Thatcherite party in this country (at least not since 2002). God only knows we need one. Labour's surrogates in ICTU presided (through Partnership) over the destruction of our competitiveness and created rip-off Ireland.
Believe it or not FT, I agree with quite a lot of what you say, but don't you think she lost the run of herself with the Britiannia Ruling the Waves bit and all the rest of that jingoistic British tripe ? " no time for multiculturalism and PCness " Ah yes, the reaction of young black people in Brixton, Toxteth etc had nothing to do with the racial predjudices rampant in Britian at the time ? I suppose you'd rather if she had carpet bombed those areas as you and her don't have any time for PC correctness, these kind of people have to be put in their place with an iron hand etc

And also everyone, bank deregulation. That was all part of Thatcherism and Reagaonomics ? And what gave rise to our great banking fiasco ? The Anglo/ American model :rolleyes:
 
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SlabMurphy

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+1.

Berties FF dealings with the unions was the exact opposite of Thatcher & it is going to be very difficult for future governments to get the unions to back down from their sense of entitlement. Berties legacy is a set of PS unions in particular who believe they set government policy.
Yeah whether you like the plan or not, there was a staged, cohesive plan with a goal at its end for Thatcherism. There was no plan for Bertie apart from "get re-elected". Honestly, the only way you could see any commonality is if you don't know much about either time period.
Agreed.........( poor Slab goes off to eat some humble pie :oops: :) )
 

SlabMurphy

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Certainly we saw a Thatcherite mentality take over FF. The whole mentality of the last ten years has been to overturn all traditional values and replace them with commodity fetishism. Building a motorway through Tara was the ultimate rebellion against ideas such as the nation, the community, history, the sacred. By doing this vandalism, FF were saying that money and those who have it are all that matters.
Exactly, these are the values and their concequence that I tried to highlight in the OP. Lie it or not, FF did ape the greed and pandering to big business to the deteriment of society in general.
 


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