Was Ireland Really The Ultimate Catholic State Post '22?

SlickWilly

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Well Dev did consult with the protestant churches prior to his bunreacht and in fairness like many Irish republicans (who also weren't) was not a sectarian B!
My understanding is concessions were given to the catholic church by the treatyites during the civil war for their support and the whole madness was exacerbated by the 1932 eucharistic congress!
What other countries were on a par - El caudillo's Espana, Salazar's Portugal, WW2 Croatia, WW2 Slovakia, perhaps some crazy South American states?
Also what was the turning point - perhaps the liberal agenda winning the divorce referendum and finally liberalising the johnny laws!
Also Iv'e heard prior to the famine Ireland was quite a promiscuous and liberal country, which all changed after that immense tradgedy, hey look at the population size!!
 


SlickWilly

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No takers on this one. Is that an indication of how much most of us have left that particular Irish insane form of catholicism behind?
 

rigumagoo

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Let's look at the gems of social policy that our government imposed on us once our country had finally won it's "freedom":

-Included in the constitution the fifth amendment, enshrining the 'special position' of the Catholic Church.

-Also written into our constitution was the infamous blasphemy law, promising criminal punishment for "publication or utterance of blasphemous matter."

-Set up the (admittedly cool sounding) Committee on Evil Literature, who insisted that the government has a duty to ban "morally corrupting" literature.

-Illegalised the use of divorce to end marriages (thereby trapping countless partners and children in abusive relationships).

-Passed the The Emergency Powers Act, giving the government the power to censor all mail, newspapers, periodicals and other communications

-Fully banned abortion under any and all circumstances

-Following the papal Encyclical Casti Connubii (1930), the sale and purchase of contraception were outlawed.

-Don't forget the countless protectionist economic measures passed to isolate Ireland from the international community and allow us to stagnate in our own little Catholic fiefdom


But hey, at least we got to change the flags outside government buildings to the tricolour!
Hurray, Let freedom ring!
 
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SlickWilly

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Yep - the Saudi Arabia of the catholic world or maybe the Taliban Afghanistan of it - but was anywhere else more insanely catholic? Did home rule/ partition in the south = Rome rule?
 

Anglo Celt

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Don't forget Ne Temere either

The use of the decree to extract commitments in mixed marriages led to state-sanctioned enforcements in the Republic of Ireland courts, such as the Tilson v. Tilson judgement, where Judge Gavan Duffy, then President of the High Court, said:

"In my opinion, an order of the court designed to secure the fulfilment of an agreement peremptorily required before a mixed marriage by the Church, whose special position in Ireland is officially recognised as the guardian of the faith of the Catholic spouse, cannot be withheld on any ground of public policy by the very State which pays homage to that Church."
 

Molly Maguire

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Well Dev did consult with the protestant churches prior to his bunreacht and in fairness like many Irish republicans (who also weren't) was not a sectarian B!
My understanding is concessions were given to the catholic church by the treatyites during the civil war for their support and the whole madness was exacerbated by the 1932 eucharistic congress!
What other countries were on a par - El caudillo's Espana, Salazar's Portugal, WW2 Croatia, WW2 Slovakia, perhaps some crazy South American states?
Also what was the turning point - perhaps the liberal agenda winning the divorce referendum and finally liberalising the johnny laws!
Also Iv'e heard prior to the famine Ireland was quite a promiscuous and liberal country, which all changed after that immense tradgedy, hey look at the population size!!
By Ireland you did of course mean the Free State.
 

SlickWilly

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BTW 2 instances which lead me to think we had a lot of catholic perverts in the state previously were those AHs trying to ban tampons in the 50s, as a lady inserting them in the appropriate key strategic area might lead her to have an occassion for sin, God forbid and the banning of an Edna O'Brien book, which had previously been given a catholic book of the year award in the States, on the grounds of an oblique reference to lesbianism! Such was the volume of books forwarded by the perverted general public to be banned that most of them were never even read prior to their banning and many writers took it as a badge of honour to be on the banned list. I believe that you could get away with a bit more if you scribbled as Gaeilge!
 

Anglo Celt

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rigumagoo

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Yep - the Saudi Arabia of the catholic world or maybe the Taliban Afghanistan of it - but was anywhere else more insanely catholic? Did home rule/ partition in the south = Rome rule?
Absolutely true.
It took until the Lemass gvmt. in the sixties to finally begin stripping away the Taliban Republic era laws and allowed us to emerge onto the international scene as a semi-mature nation (only to have our reputation tarnished by the onset of the troubles up north).
 

Old Mr Grouser

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Yep - the Saudi Arabia of the catholic world or maybe the Taliban Afghanistan of it - but was anywhere else more insanely catholic? Did home rule/ partition in the south = Rome rule?
I'd say it was 'Irish Catholicism' rather than Roman Catholicism'.

For example, when the State evaded its responsibilities for Health and Education by delegating its functions to the Church.
 
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Anglo Celt

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Q-Tours

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Don't forget Ne Temere either
My personal favourite was Propria Motu (not sure of date), the gist of which was to "discourage" the Ovines Faithful from taking clergy to court.

I still remember a solicitor telling me about a secretary in the 1970s who nearly got herself fired for refusing to deal with letters in a case where the client was suing a priest over a traffic collision.

But dealing with the OP, we at least had formal recognition of the CofI (as long as they didn't kick up too much) and the others. It was a much rougher business in Spain or Portugal. The only Protestant church in Portugal was the English Church in Estrela in Lisbon, and the Concordat gave the Church effectively exclusive jurisdiction (as opposed to the veto they had here) over marriage and family law.

I was told, but can't verify, that in Spain your Catholicism and 'traditional family life' were factors to be taken into account in your application for and advancement through the public service. I don't think we ever quite reached that level here.
 

Anglo Celt

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My personal favourite was Propria Motu (not sure of date), the gist of which was to "discourage" the Ovines Faithful from taking clergy to court.

I still remember a solicitor telling me about a secretary in the 1970s who nearly got herself fired for refusing to deal with letters in a case where the client was suing a priest over a traffic collision.
I wonder did Propria Motu have any bearing on cases of child abuse that might have come to light to the authorities?
 

Q-Tours

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I wonder did Propria Motu have any bearing on cases of child abuse that might have come to light to the authorities?
At the time of the 1914 Home Rule Bill it was argued that Propria Motu didn't apply in Ireland, or if it did, it only applied as between RCs in the private capacity and wouldn't prevent RC judges or civil servants acting in relation to cases where clergy were being sued.

Even if it didn't apply, or was obsolete by the 1960, I've no doubt that the idea that Scandalising the Church is a Sin was deep-rooted. Of course, the "sin" consisted of complaining about the wrong done to you, not in raping children.
 


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