Was it for this? The Irish Times editorial 18.11.10

He3

Moderator
Joined
Oct 1, 2008
Messages
17,077
I hope the IT will not mind if I reproduce in full their editorial on the arrival of the IMF/EU in Dublin today.

Was it for this?


IT MAY seem strange to some that The Irish Times would ask whether this is what the men of 1916 died for: a bailout from the German chancellor with a few shillings of sympathy from the British chancellor on the side. There is the shame of it all. Having obtained our political independence from Britain to be the masters of our own affairs, we have now surrendered our sovereignty to the European Commission, the European Central Bank, and the International Monetary Fund. Their representatives ride into Merrion Street today.

Fianna Fáil has sometimes served Ireland very well, sometimes very badly. Even in its worst times, however, it retained some respect for its underlying commitment that the Irish should control their own destinies. It lists among its primary aims the commitment “to maintain the status of Ireland as a sovereign State”. Its founder, Eamon de Valera, in his inaugural address to his new party in 1926, spoke of “the inalienability of national sovereignty” as being fundamental to its beliefs. The Republican Party’s ideals are in tatters now.

The Irish people do not need to be told that, especially for small nations, there is no such thing as absolute sovereignty. We know very well that we have made our independence more meaningful by sharing it with our European neighbours. We are not naive enough to think that this State ever can, or ever could, take large decisions in isolation from the rest of the world. What we do expect, however, is that those decisions will still be our own. A nation’s independence is defined by the choices it can make for itself.

Irish history makes the loss of that sense of choice all the more shameful. The desire to be a sovereign people runs like a seam through all the struggles of the last 200 years. “Self-determination” is a phrase that echoes from the United Irishmen to the Belfast Agreement. It continues to have a genuine resonance for most Irish people today.

The true ignominy of our current situation is not that our sovereignty has been taken away from us, it is that we ourselves have squandered it. Let us not seek to assuage our sense of shame in the comforting illusion that powerful nations in Europe are conspiring to become our masters. We are, after all, no great prize for any would-be overlord now. No rational European would willingly take on the task of cleaning up the mess we have made. It is the incompetence of the governments we ourselves elected that has so deeply compromised our capacity to make our own decisions.

They did so, let us recall, from a period when Irish sovereignty had never been stronger. Our national debt was negligible. The mass emigration that had mocked our claims to be a people in control of our own destiny was reversed. A genuine act of national self-determination had occurred in 1998 when both parts of the island voted to accept the Belfast Agreement. The sense of failure and inferiority had been banished, we thought, for good.

To drag this State down from those heights and make it again subject to the decisions of others is an achievement that will not soon be forgiven. It must mark, surely, the ignominious end of a failed administration.
Was it for this? - The Irish Times - Thu, Nov 18, 2010
 
Last edited:


readytogo

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 9, 2009
Messages
346

Cassandra Syndrome

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 23, 2009
Messages
16,885
We are a steal for anyone. They amount of Natural Resources we have is unreal.
 

waterford

Active member
Joined
Nov 3, 2009
Messages
158
For f##k sake we lost our sovereignty around the same time we lost our integrity, this is begining to sound like a comedy show. The Times taking issue with sovereignty is laughable.

Im european now and I dont care who is putting a stop to the madness as long as it stops.
 

Simbo67

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 23, 2004
Messages
572
This must rank as one of the most damning pieces ever written about an Irish government. I read it and I want to cry after it.
 

Ah Well

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 18, 2008
Messages
1,228
This must rank as one of the most damning pieces ever written about an Irish government. I read it and I want to cry after it.
The ending "a failed administration" should have read "Fianna Fáil" and it would be quite acceptable
 

former wesleyan

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 29, 2009
Messages
25,562
I laughed at the bit about " emigration being reversed " !! Emigration was only reversed because of the inflated nature of the boom... the very thing that it's cribbing about. In Britain Denis Healey called in the IMF and did a deal with it. Who cares or even remembers about that now ; and did the British lose their sovereignty ?
There must be an M & S sale in small panties !
 

eoghanacht

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 18, 2006
Messages
32,410
This must rank as one of the most damning pieces ever written about an Irish government. I read it and I want to cry after it.
+1

There's two lines that keep going over and over in my mind, one is the line that Cowen made famous at the infamous FF lock in

I cursed all foreign money , no credit could i gain...

The other are the words to 'For what died the sons of Roisín' in my sig
 

eirepol

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 20, 2009
Messages
720
Website
www.sinnfein.org
The hypocrisy of the Irish Times knows no end. To wrap the green flag around itself after it betrayed not only the martyrs of 1916 but all those who died in the recent conflict is sickening. It only cares about sovereigntyy when money is involved. Pay them enough euro, dollars or sterling and they will be pack to their sycophant ways.
 

eoghanacht

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 18, 2006
Messages
32,410
I laughed at the bit about " emigration being reversed " !! Emigration was only reversed because of the inflated nature of the boom... the very thing that it's cribbing about. In Britain Denis Healey called in the IMF and did a deal with it. Who cares or even remembers about that now ; and did the British lose their sovereignty ?
There must be an M & S sale in small panties !
You underestimate how dear our sovreignty is to us, Britain always told us we were incapable of self rule and thanks to FF they have been proven correct, all is not lost yet though.

Besides at the time Britain had and still has control over it's own currency. we have no such luxury.
 

TommyO'Brien

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 14, 2009
Messages
12,132
Well the Irish Times called for the 1916 leaders to be executed.
So did the Irish Independent and most regional newspapers at the time.

The people who wrote those editorials are long dead. The current generation should not, and cannot, be held responsible for the editorial lines adopted by their papers ninety-four years ago.
 

jmcc

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 12, 2004
Messages
42,354
Two words for the Irish Times: Lisbon Two.
Four words for FF: Your time is done.

Regards...jmcc
 

powderfinger

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 13, 2007
Messages
3,350
irish times
The true ignominy of our current situation is not that our sovereignty has been taken away from us, it is that we ourselves have squandered it.
Not buying that.
 

eoghanacht

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 18, 2006
Messages
32,410
So did the Irish Independent and most regional newspapers at the time.

The people who wrote those editorials are long dead. The current generation should not, and cannot, be held responsible for the editorial lines adopted by their papers ninety-four years ago.
Oh come off it tommy the grand old dame has always been a west brit rag sneering aloofly at our little nation.

The fact that they come out with an editorial like this brings home the severity of the crisis home to those well heeled readers in leafy SCD. Shows just how angrt the populous are
 

bonkers

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 4, 2006
Messages
24,148
The hypocrisy of the Irish Times knows no end. To wrap the green flag around itself after it betrayed not only the martyrs of 1916 but all those who died in the recent conflict is sickening. It only cares about sovereigntyy when money is involved. Pay them enough euro, dollars or sterling and they will be pack to their sycophant ways.
what sort of idiot are you,read a few books you ************************************g half wit.try going back to school.
 

umbrey

Active member
Joined
Jun 8, 2009
Messages
155
The hypocrisy of the Irish Times knows no end. To wrap the green flag around itself after it betrayed not only the martyrs of 1916 but all those who died in the recent conflict is sickening. It only cares about sovereigntyy when money is involved. Pay them enough euro, dollars or sterling and they will be pack to their sycophant ways.
Too true and the rest of the rags.
 

former wesleyan

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 29, 2009
Messages
25,562
You underestimate how dear our sovreignty is to us, Britain always told us we were incapable of self rule and thanks to FF they have been proven correct, all is not lost yet though.

Besides at the time Britain had and still has control over it's own currency. we have no such luxury.
No I don't. My point was that we haven't lost it at all; a financial problem isn't to be equated with loss of sovereignty nowadays. Part of the problem is that many Irish define sovereignty in terms of Devs trade wars with Britain and suchlike. Again I ask.... did Britain lose its sovereignty when it applied to the IMF ? When you join the UN, or the EU, you agree to pool sovereignty and a bail out isn't far off that kind of pooling.
 

Mitsui2

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 13, 2009
Messages
32,380
Carping about what the Irish Times did in 1916 is mindless tribal whataboutery of the sort that has kept this county locked into a weird psychological version of the 1950s (at the latest).

Quite apart from anything else it would be far more relevant to complain about how much the "not-one-but-TWO-property supplements!!!" Times bought into the Celtic Tiger nonsense in far more recent years.

But this is a serious and much-considered editorial. It will be quoted in history books of the future when most current media content has been long forgotten.
 


New Threads

Popular Threads

Most Replies

Top