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Water charges totally coming in 2014. Except they're clearly not.


Sync

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Less than 5 per cent of water meter connection points identified - Environmental News | The Irish Times - Sat, Apr 20, 2013

So 3 months to go before the installations are meant to begin being carried out and the govt haven't managed to even establish where and if it's possible to install the stopcocks (and seriously boys, if ever you needed to rename a product, it's that right there).

Engineering surveys to establish where domestic water meters can be installed have not been completed by any local authority, even though the installation programme is due to start in three months’ time.

Just half of the State’s 34 city and county councils have started surveys to locate the stopcocks for the 1,050,000 households connected to the public water supply. Four local authorities have given no indication of when they intend to start their surveys.

Irish Water’s meter installation programme is due to begin in July and be completed by 2016. The Government is committed under the EU-IMF rescue plan to start charging households for water in 2014. However, Minister for Finance Michael Noonan earlier this month said the Government might seek sanction to delay the introduction of charges to 2015.
It's easy to point and laugh at the councils, but ultimately this is a govt plan and they're the ones responsible for ensuring it's carried out on time. If you (as those responsible) haven't seen to it that the bloody surveys have been carried out on time then what realistic hope is there for carrying out the more complicated part of the project? Pointing and blaming the councils won't work here.

This is what's killing the Tories right now in the UK. You can get away with having policies that are very unpopular with certain parts of the electorate. You can't get away with incompetently carrying out policies that are very unpopular with certain parts of the electorate.
 

Tin Foil Hat

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Stopcocks. Tee hee hee hee.


Water charges won't happen. I'm becoming more and more convinced of it.
 

wombat

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The key is in the word completed, our street had connections for meters installed 3 years ago, a lot of new estates have them installed, its not a major operation. That said, one of the reasons BGE has been given the water franchise is their experience in charging for gas.
 

Sync

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I think it'll happen eventually in this country, I do think it's a candidate for the sop that needs to be thrown to Labour supporters. The problem though is that really the sop needs to be something that's costing people money right now as opposed to a future charge they won't pay. It's the optics more than anything.
 

hiding behind a poster

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I think it'll happen eventually in this country, I do think it's a candidate for the sop that needs to be thrown to Labour supporters. The problem though is that really the sop needs to be something that's costing people money right now as opposed to a future charge they won't pay. It's the optics more than anything.
I'd heard, long before the by-election, that water charges may not happen for a long time.
 

Ulster-Lad

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Who says they need a meter in place for this? They could simply charge a flat rate for one's residence and another for business.

They could install a meter and base the charge on the usage when the meter is eventually installed.
 

Tin Foil Hat

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I think it'll happen eventually in this country, I do think it's a candidate for the sop that needs to be thrown to Labour supporters. The problem though is that really the sop needs to be something that's costing people money right now as opposed to a future charge they won't pay. It's the optics more than anything.
If Labour had a brain they'd do a uturn on the home tax.
All testing for brain has, however, come up negative.
 

Sync

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Who says they need a meter in place for this? They could simply charge a flat rate for one's residence and another for business.

They could install a meter and base the charge on the usage when the meter is eventually installed.
They could do that, but the long term drive for water charges should be to reward people for using less water (and I think that's a good reason to do it) To initiate the plan without the meter just means it's going to be a money grab. It's also worth noting that history shows that once the money comes in, the meters will go on the back burner.
 

Ulster-Lad

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They could do that, but the long term drive for water charges should be to reward people for using less water (and I think that's a good reason to do it) To initiate the plan without the meter just means it's going to be a money grab. It's also worth noting that history shows that once the money comes in, the meters will go on the back burner.
It is a money grab. The same as the property tax. According to the government it was directed by the troika and therefore they are obligated to impose it and impose it they will.
 

hiding behind a poster

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They could do that, but the long term drive for water charges should be to reward people for using less water (and I think that's a good reason to do it) To initiate the plan without the meter just means it's going to be a money grab. It's also worth noting that history shows that once the money comes in, the meters will go on the back burner.
There's a difference between initiating the plan without the water meters, and initiating the plan in advance of the water meters, though.
 

hiding behind a poster

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It is a money grab. The same as the property tax. According to the government it was directed by the troika and therefore they are obligated to impose it and impose it they will.
How do you think we should fix the tax base after it was destroyed during the bubble? (hint: an increase in the USC for high earners does NOT solve all ills).
 

hiding behind a poster

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If Labour had a brain they'd do a uturn on the home tax.
All testing for brain has, however, come up negative.
Where else do you propose raising a billion a year in tax?
 

Ulster-Lad

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You just proved my point with your contributions to this thread HBAP. Well done
 

DaveM

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There's a difference between initiating the plan without the water meters, and initiating the plan in advance of the water meters, though.
If it involved flat rate charging in the abscence of meters which are to be installed later then really you're talking about varying degrees of stupidity.
 

Sync

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There's a difference between initiating the plan without the water meters, and initiating the plan in advance of the water meters, though.
Yeah but there's no good faith basis to believe the govt (or any govt) will do that. If you're already getting say 100 million from 1 million households a year at €100 a pop, what real motivation does the govt have to pay to install metres in order to get 100 million a year from 1 million households split by use?
 

hiding behind a poster

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If it involved flat rate charging in the abscence of meters which are to be installed later then really you're talking about varying degrees of stupidity.
No you're not. If you need to raise the money somewhere and the meters aren't ready, you apply a low flat charge until they are.
 

hiding behind a poster

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Yeah but there's no good faith basis to believe the govt (or any govt) will do that. If you're already getting say 100 million from 1 million households a year at €100 a pop, what real motivation does the govt have to pay to install metres in order to get 100 million a year from 1 million households split by use?
Because those aren't the figures. A flat charge will bring in substantially less than full metered charges, because it'd have to be set at a level low enough for everyone to be able to pay, given the likely absence of usage allowances, etc that would come with a metered charge.
 

Ulster-Lad

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How do you think we should fix the tax base after it was destroyed during the bubble? (hint: an increase in the USC for high earners does NOT solve all ills).
Just more of the government trying to get blood from a stone.

The Labour party may have some thoughts on this? ;)
 

Sync

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Because those aren't the figures. A flat charge will bring in substantially less than full metered charges, because it'd have to be set at a level low enough for everyone to be able to pay, given the likely absence of usage allowances, etc that would come with a metered charge.
Except an Irish govt would rather get 75% for not doing anything than 100% for doing something.
 
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