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Water Charges Will Spark Water War


MadAsHell

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Joined
May 7, 2009
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92
PAYE workers and hard pressed families will be outraged to see that the Green Party and Fianna Fail have agreed to reintroduce water charges. The revised Programme for Government is clearly a continuation of Government policy of landing the price of the crash in the capitalist economy squarely on the shoulders of working people.

Water Charges Will Spark A Water War | Joe Higgins.eu
Sorry couldn't resist;)

 

bactrian

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Joined
May 11, 2004
Messages
1,221
These outraged cries and accusations never fail to amuse me. There seems to be this silly idea that we are all entitled to things but that we should not have to pay for them.

By what right may I turn on my tap and just leave it running?

If I am going to waste water ,why should it not cost me?

The notion of "Water Rates" is not Capitalism it is Responsibility.

I am responsible for my water usage and I should be Accountable if I waste water.

Accountability is not just for Politicians.
 

Victor Meldrew

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Jun 8, 2007
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7,184
Water is a resource and its delivery to your home is a Utility. I think you should pay, but only in proportion to what you use, and you should have an incentive to reduce your consumption, as you do with electricity, gas and petrol (for example).

Currently it's been paid for via our regular Taxes (in one shape or another, I know there is more to it than that). So I'd expect to see either a tax cut or a clear reallocation of these tax receipts to other services, not to Admin staff in the HSE or NAMA ...

So install meters and charge all households for the use of their water.

I do not think this should be free and unlimited to social wlefare recipients, they should have a comfortable average allowance according to normal usage per person and they pay for anything above that.

you choose your car according to your ability to pay road tax /insurance / petrol and you heat your house according to your ability to pay. Both decisions should also be influenced by your environmental conscience. Water should be no different.
 
Joined
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I disagree with the free to social welfare recipients as you make it even harder for those who willingly go out to work when yet another freebie is given to those who don't.
 

Thac0man

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Aug 13, 2006
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6,482
Twitter
twit taa woo
Is this a rallying cry for the SWP? If they do adopt this cause (and then hijack it) we can expect the same result as came from the bin charges protests.

I am against charging for water used on an everyday basis. But in favour of water used above and beyond the national average. Water wastage and predicted shortages are costing us dear. The estimates of the cost of fixing those things is also predicted to be steep.
 

alleygate

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Joined
Sep 4, 2009
Messages
25
Water in the rivers and lakes around the island is free, as of course it should be. However the water which reaches your tap involves a cleaning/ decontamination process, the construction and maintenance of the accompanying infrastructure, and last but not least- paying workers involved in water utilities plants, and those maintaining the water supply grid.
So it's not as straight forward as considering water a natural right giving the amount of manpower and time that goes into getting it pumped into household taps.

If water metres are introduced, it should be pay per amount used of course.
 

Sync

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Joined
Aug 27, 2009
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Yeah water metres are the way to go. Just like every other European Country afaik. As Victor said, it's a utility. A utility that the governement used to be able to afford to pay for us. They can't any more, so it makes sense to pay it.

I'm sure Joe etc will make their points in a legal way this time, unlike 2003.
 

The Caped Cod

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Jul 15, 2009
Messages
3,575
The cost of water services at the moment is taken from the tax take. If the government introduce water charges, what happens to these taxes? Is there anyway to trace this tax money so we know that we're not simply being charged twice?

One upside of having to pay water charges (I suppose) would be that we would have more power to get rid of flouridation, which I believe is against some EU law or other anyway.
 

The Caped Cod

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Jul 15, 2009
Messages
3,575
Yeah water metres are the way to go. Just like every other European Country afaik. As Victor said, it's a utility. A utility that the governement used to be able to afford to pay for us. They can't any more, so it makes sense to pay it.

I'm sure Joe etc will make their points in a legal way this time, unlike 2003.
The "government" have and will never pay for anything. The tax payer does. I know it seems like petty semantics but if you think about how much we use expressions like "the government will pay" I think we subconsciously fool ourselves. It is also the type of misnomer that the media use alot and I feel it creates a false impression of the system, like the government are giviing us something when in fact we are paying for it. Sorry, off topic anyway.
 
B

birthday

The cost of water services at the moment is taken from the tax take. If the government introduce water charges, what happens to these taxes? Is there anyway to trace this tax money so we know that we're not simply being charged twice?

One upside of having to pay water charges (I suppose) would be that we would have more power to get rid of flouridation, which I believe is against some EU law or other anyway.

Charges will and should come.
The whole issue of water charges might bring a lot more attention to the fluoride issue.
In the meantime, I wonder if many people who are against fluoride use toothpaste containing fluoride? If they do they are getting an extra dose.
For the record, I have not made up my mind on the issue but would lean towards removing it.
 

kerdasi amaq

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Aug 24, 2009
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I can't believe that there are idiots out there, who want to pay water charges.:mad:
 

Sync

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Aug 27, 2009
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28,845
The "government" have and will never pay for anything. The tax payer does. I know it seems like petty semantics but if you think about how much we use expressions like "the government will pay" I think we subconsciously fool ourselves. It is also the type of misnomer that the media use alot and I feel it creates a false impression of the system, like the government are giviing us something when in fact we are paying for it. Sorry, off topic anyway.
No no, fair point.
 

Kevin Doyle

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Joined
Jan 9, 2007
Messages
11,067
The "government" have and will never pay for anything. The tax payer does. I know it seems like petty semantics but if you think about how much we use expressions like "the government will pay" I think we subconsciously fool ourselves. It is also the type of misnomer that the media use alot and I feel it creates a false impression of the system, like the government are giviing us something when in fact we are paying for it. Sorry, off topic anyway.
Not off topic at all, you have described the crucial aspect of taxation. Nothing the Government offers it citizens is free. It is paid for out of taxation.

Water charges without a verifiable depreciation of the tax burden to the individual is simply a double tax.

If the Government is short of Revenue and our tax input does not stretch to cover costs it should raise taxes directly not issue another regressive stealth tax particularly on an issue as easily ring-fenced as water supply.
 

The Caped Cod

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I can't believe that there are idiots out there, who want to pay water charges.:mad:
The way I see it, we are already paying through tax. If that tax is going to be direct, according to our consumation, in the form of charges, ok, what happens to the original tax money that was funding it? How will people know that they are not simply paying twice.
 

Ah Well

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Joined
Dec 18, 2008
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1,235
Well one way to cut down on water usage/charges is to have yer bath outside like this. Plenty of water falling from dem dere Irish skies ... just let it fill up ... might be a tad chilly this time of year tho but what the heck, consider it a call to patriotic action as Lenihan might say

:D


 
G

Gimpanzee

I can't believe that there are idiots out there, who want to pay water charges.:mad:
You probably can't believe that a big section of the population are already paying domestic water charges, and have been for a long time...
 

bactrian

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May 11, 2004
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Monkey-Magic

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Joined
May 8, 2009
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Why do we have a progressive taxation system if it will not cover the most basic of services such as clean water? If water charges come in it will be another form of double taxation and another example of the tax burden being shifted onto the working class.
 

The Caped Cod

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Joined
Jul 15, 2009
Messages
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Charges will and should come.
The whole issue of water charges might bring a lot more attention to the fluoride issue.
In the meantime, I wonder if many people who are against fluoride use toothpaste containing fluoride? If they do they are getting an extra dose.
For the record, I have not made up my mind on the issue but would lean towards removing it.
Charges or taxation, not both though.

At least you can choose to buy a flouride free toothpaste. You might have to look around but you have the choice to use it or not. When the water is flouridated you have no choice. The fact that flouride tablets exist for those who believe there is merit to it means there is no need to forcably "medicate" the water supply.

I don't know why, but I can't find mint flouride free toothpaste. Most of the brands I've tried have that silica taste of tiling grout, and as a smoker the added freshness wouldn't hurt, but hey, better I prefer bad breath to flouurosis.
 
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