Wave and tidal! What have we to show for our money?

cry freedom

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 8, 2009
Messages
2,338
Anybody with half a brain knows that wind on its own will leave us all in the dark.
What worries me even more is the belief that Ireland, because of its geographical position off the Atlantic, will become a Mecca for wave and tidal technologies.
What it seems to have become is a Mecca for chancers claiming grants for pie in the sky technologies that won't work either now or in the future.
The average Hibernocentric thinks that this is new technology and that we are breaking new ground in this field.
These aspirations of raising cheap energy from the sea [and the movement thereof], have been around for donkeys years.
Institutions around the world, both commercial and academic have spent millions trying to solve the problem and have largely given up.
Now in pounces Eamon Ryan. He and his largess [with our money] is going to pull the rabbit out of the hat and save us all.
With all the money that has been already spent surely some institution has something to show us for their effort.
Are we as taxpayers not entitled to some kind of a progress report?
__________________
 


junius

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 31, 2010
Messages
3,675
Anybody with half a brain knows that wind on its own will leave us all in the dark.
What worries me even more is the belief that Ireland, because of its geographical position off the Atlantic, will become a Mecca for wave and tidal technologies.
What it seems to have become is a Mecca for chancers claiming grants for pie in the sky technologies that won't work either now or in the future.
The average Hibernocentric thinks that this is new technology and that we are breaking new ground in this field.
These aspirations of raising cheap energy from the sea [and the movement thereof], have been around for donkeys years.
Institutions around the world, both commercial and academic have spent millions trying to solve the problem and have largely given up.
Now in pounces Eamon Ryan. He and his largess [with our money] is going to pull the rabbit out of the hat and save us all.
With all the money that has been already spent surely some institution has something to show us for their effort.
Are we as taxpayers not entitled to some kind of a progress report?
__________________
What money? Progress reports? If you spend tuppence you hardly expect progress reports?
 

cry freedom

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 8, 2009
Messages
2,338
What money? Progress reports? If you spend tuppence you hardly expect progress reports?
If you spend any of my money I expect a full report
Minister Ryan has assured us on numerous occasions that wind, wave and tidal will save us from the need to go nuclear.Surely he must have evidence to support this assertion.
All I ask is that he share it with us!
 

junius

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 31, 2010
Messages
3,675
If you spend any of my money I expect a full report
Minister Ryan has assured us on numerous occasions that wind, wave and tidal will save us from the need to go nuclear.Surely he must have evidence to support this assertion.
All I ask is that he share it with us!
I'm fine with nuclear so long as the reactor is situated in your back yard!!! I've already suffered severely from your dumping dirty industry in mine for your benefit alone - no benefit whatsoever to me! So long as that's agreed then you and me'll get along fine.

Sit back & chill with this!
[ame="http://www.vimeo.com/15075367"]http://www.vimeo.com/15075367[/ame]
 
Last edited:

Twin Towers

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 14, 2005
Messages
5,803
The trouble with wave power is anything that can be designed to be bombarded by waves will be destroyed by waves. Like trying to generate electricity by cycling your bicycle with the brake full on. Gormley should understand that.
 
Last edited:

wombat

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Messages
33,520
The trouble with wave power is anything that can be designed to be bombarded by waves will be destroyed by waves.
That is one of the problems which need to be overcome. Its also the reason why the Corrib plant was built onshore - too expensive to go offshore. Most of the grants have gone on research and prototypes, I think its worth spending money on R&D although I don't buy into the political hype - as I have said before, the nonsense spouted by politicians about renewable energy is a direct result of the lack of science education among the population.
 

cry freedom

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 8, 2009
Messages
2,338
I'm fine with nuclear so long as the reactor is situated in your back yard!!! I've already suffered severely from your dumping dirty industry in mine for your benefit alone - no benefit whatsoever to me! So long as that's agreed then you and me'll get along fine.
I'd have no problem with a nuclear power station down the road from me so long as it was built to international best practice and standards.
In fact I would have no problem with either my daughters or indeed my granddaughters house being down wind of it, for that matter.
Far better that than a coal fired power station.Scrubbers or no scrubbers.
What would really worry me, junius, is if I had to live downwind of you..:eek:
 

cry freedom

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 8, 2009
Messages
2,338
Just apropos this thread. Was reading in the Observer today that Portugal is on course to achieve 60% of its energy needs (it is currently at 45%) from renewables.

Let's learn from Portugal's renewable energy policy | Syma Tariq | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk
Yes, and I am on course to win the lottery any day now.
For goodness sake would you all grow up and wakeup.
This renewables thing is a fairy story.
It will end up in a heap of expensive crap like the e-voting machines, only costing far more money!
 

Magror14

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 13, 2008
Messages
1,870
Yes, and I am on course to win the lottery any day now.
For goodness sake would you all grow up and wakeup.
This renewables thing is a fairy story.
It will end up in a heap of expensive crap like the e-voting machines, only costing far more money!
I hear you guys are on course to cap the leak in the Gulf of Mexico :)
 

myksav

Well-known member
Joined
May 13, 2008
Messages
23,381
Anybody with half a brain knows that wind on its own will leave us all in the dark.
What worries me even more is the belief that Ireland, because of its geographical position off the Atlantic, will become a Mecca for wave and tidal technologies.
What it seems to have become is a Mecca for chancers claiming grants for pie in the sky technologies that won't work either now or in the future.
The average Hibernocentric thinks that this is new technology and that we are breaking new ground in this field.
These aspirations of raising cheap energy from the sea [and the movement thereof], have been around for donkeys years.
Institutions around the world, both commercial and academic have spent millions trying to solve the problem and have largely given up.
Now in pounces Eamon Ryan. He and his largess [with our money] is going to pull the rabbit out of the hat and save us all.
With all the money that has been already spent surely some institution has something to show us for their effort.
Are we as taxpayers not entitled to some kind of a progress report?
__________________
From whom? Wave power systems are being tested by private groups, not the Gov't.
Invest in the concept with your own money and you'll get progerss reports. Though you'll likely have to sign a Non Disclosure Agreement.
 

GreenIsGood

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 26, 2010
Messages
1,536
I think everyone agrees that if private investors want to put money into tidal or wave innovation, then that is a great thing. There are standard state supports (through Enterprise Ireland) which help also.

However, the sad fact is that it is hard to see how serious amounts of public money will be invested in indigenous energy innovators.

Why? Because billions are being pissed away importing wind turbines and building a monstrous grid to accomodate "energy sprawl". This fanatical mal-investment is sucking resources away from much more productive investment.

Indigenous energy innovators, whether in tidal, nuclear or biomass share a common interest. Put a stop the current delusional policy before it is too late.
 

cry freedom

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 8, 2009
Messages
2,338
From whom? Wave power systems are being tested by private groups, not the Gov't.
Invest in the concept with your own money and you'll get progerss reports. Though you'll likely have to sign a Non Disclosure Agreement.
Listen, me auld flower.
If these private companies are getting grants from the Irish taxpayer they should come up with at least a progress report.
I'm not asking for sensitive commercial information.
Just a few lines telling us how our money is being spent, how far they are into solving the equation. and when we may look forward to a final design and a report thereon.
Simples!
 

myksav

Well-known member
Joined
May 13, 2008
Messages
23,381
Listen, me auld flower.
If these private companies are getting grants from the Irish taxpayer they should come up with at least a progress report.
I'm not asking for sensitive commercial information.
Just a few lines telling us how our money is being spent, how far they are into solving the equation. and when we may look forward to a final design and a report thereon.
Simples!
Those two would fall into commercially sensitive information. How the money is spent can also be used to gain commercial intelligence.
 

cry freedom

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 8, 2009
Messages
2,338
Those two would fall into commercially sensitive information. How the money is spent can also be used to gain commercial intelligence.
So, we just keep ladeling the money in and thrust them?
On a slightly more important point, if Minister Ryan is making statements to the effect that we are "awash with energy" off our west coast, that assertion must be based on something other than wishful thinking. Would it be asking too much of him to just give us a hint.
If his beliefs are based on the same type of engineering and planning as those on wind power, then God help us.
 

wombat

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Messages
33,520
On a slightly more important point, if Minister Ryan is making statements to the effect that we are "awash with energy" off our west coast, that assertion must be based on something other than wishful thinking. .
He's correct in the first part, the 2nd part is the billion dollar question - I know, a billion dollars is small change;)
 

energy

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 24, 2010
Messages
609
So, we just keep ladeling the money in and thrust them?
On a slightly more important point, if Minister Ryan is making statements to the effect that we are "awash with energy" off our west coast, that assertion must be based on something other than wishful thinking. Would it be asking too much of him to just give us a hint.
If his beliefs are based on the same type of engineering and planning as those on wind power, then God help us.
Here's a hint about the economics of tidal energy ...
ScienceDirect - Energy Policy : The economics of tidal energy

It is found that for tidal generation to produce positive net benefits for the case study, the capital costs would have to be less than €510,000 per MW installed which is currently an unrealistically low capital cost. Thus, it is concluded that tidal generation is not a viable option for the case system at the present time.
Waste of time - tried but didn't work and too expensive - time to move on ...

It's amazing really how the pro-renewable lobby on this site can't even muster a single report to justify the massive subsidies and grants for their green friends.

myksav said:
Those two would fall into commercially sensitive information. How the money is spent can also be used to gain commercial intelligence.
France24 - Police swoop on 'Lord of the Winds' as Mafia goes green

The lure of EU credits

“The Mafia’s shift towards renewable energies has been going on for years and not only in Sicily,” Viviano said. “The financial stakes are huge

Throughout Italy, organised crime has invested heavily in renewable energies and in waste processing, laundering the profits made from drug trafficking and cashing in on generous subsidies provided by the state and the European Union.
"commercial intelligence" :rolleyes:
 

wombat

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Messages
33,520
Waste of time - tried but didn't work and too expensive - time to move on ...
Tidal power won't work because our tides aren't big enough but there may be something in wave power which is worth researching on a small scale. We pay academics anyway, so I don't see the harm in doing the research although I suspect the money would be better spent in the food sector.
 

junius

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 31, 2010
Messages
3,675
Listen, me auld flower.
Simples!
Nothing simples about it Cry Freedom. Do you really think its as simple as designing something and getting it out there? If wave energy development had the money used to bail out corrupt banks and bankers where would we be now? Development of wave energy has been ongoing for many decades, even centuries. Oil companies have on many occasions used their money and their power corruptly to ensure that alternative energy does not proceed in case their shareholder's proceeds were to be negatively affected.
I have no doubt Cry Freedom will cry "rubbish"! Are you so absolutely sure Cry Freedom? I also hope you never live downwind or upwind of me either.
 


New Threads

Most Replies

Top