We can't have a hospital in every town

Akrasia

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This is the message from the HSE when they announce the downgrading or closure of local hospital services in regional towns across the country.

Their logic is that in order to provide a 'center of excellence' there needs to be a critical mass of patients in the catchment area of a hospital to give surgeons and specialists sufficient numbers of cases to keep their skills fresh and sharp to avoid mistakes.

Ok, that kinda makes sense, we don't want to have second class out of practice surgeons doing life or death surgeries on patients.

Ennis hospital has been downgraded to the status of an outpatients clinic/geriatric hospice. The reason given was that it's too close to the 'centres of excellence' in galway and Limerick to merit it's own hospital.

Why then has it just been announced that a new 140 bed private hospital will be built in Ennis by 2014?

The proposed development includes 120 in-patient beds and a further 20 outpatient and daycare beds. It will provide a full range of medical and healthcare services including general surgery, urgent care, cardiology, radiation, oncology, cosmetic surgery, four operating theatres and endoscopy.
Other services will include physiotherapy, laboratory, x-ray, radiology, MRI/PET scans, ECG, mammogram, renal dialysis, ultrasound, pharmacy and dental facilities.
The building will include basement level parking for 212 cars, ten disabled parking bays, new access from Shanaway Road and an energy centre with a connecting service tunnel from the hospital basement.
€60m private hospital plan
Is anyone else getting ridiculously sick and tired of being constantly lied to??

If Ennis is too small for a public hospital, how come it's big enough for a private hospital that is bigger than the public hospital they're trying to shut down?

If services are being removed from ennis because there isn't a need for them, why were the health services secretly planning to open a private hospital in the town that conveniently provides the same services that have been stripped from the public hospital?
 
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charley

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Get your planning objection in now.If supervalu can keep Dunnes and Tesco from building in major towns it shouldn't be to hard to stop a private hospital
 

Akrasia

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it's already been practically granted permission. The council voted 28-3 in favour or rezoning the land for use as a hospital and the planners have already approved the proposals for development.

This is a road that houses the richest and most influential people in Ennis, Including the town planner himself. If there was any hope of preventing this hospital at the planning stages, it would never have gotten this far,

but none of this is relevant to my main point,

How can the HSE be saying that there is no requirement for hospital services outside of the 'centers of excellence' while at the same time encouraging private interests to set up private hospitals to fill the vacuum of the vacating public health service.
 

charley

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Mary Harney and her gimp lobbyist husband are proponents of private healthcare. The fact that an independant TD with such views is allowed to hold such a high level portfolio would raise a few questions
 

Sync

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How do you think it's being encouraged? If people want to build a private hospital they can. If they want to build a spar they can. What a private organisation does has no baring on a national strategy.

I haven't heard the HSE said there's no requirement. If you ask any village in the country they'll tell you they want a hospital. That doesn't mean you base your national strategy on health around the out of date idea that you have a million little hospitals in each county. It's not cost effective and its not appropriate.
 

MPB

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I would prefer to have a hospital in every town, than a council.
 

charley

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I would prefer to have a hospital in every town, than a council.
Donegal has 85 elected representatives ,we have a population of 147,000
I'm assuming down the country is worse.
 

Akrasia

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How do you think it's being encouraged? If people want to build a private hospital they can.
No, they can only build a private hospital if they have zoning and investors. The zoning is granted politically, this requires a political strategy. The investors need to be convinced that there is a suitable return on their investment (ie, a demand for the service)


If they want to build a spar they can. What a private organisation does has no baring on a national strategy.
It does contradict the declarations of the 'national strategy'.

If the 'National strategy' is that hospital services need to be concentrated regionally because of lack of demand locally, then it makes a total joke of the 'national strategy' that the instant public hospital services are withdrawn from an area, private resources rush in to fill the gap. (and anecdotal information I have is that the plans for the private hospital were well underway as the services in Ennis General Hospital were being withdrawn. I don't have any evidence of this, but it seems like the state is making room for the private sector, not just in Ennis, but nationally. and given the political motivations and commercial connections of the minister for Health, it's hard to draw any other conclusion other than that the privatisation of healthcare was a fundamental part of Harney's strategy.
 

jimwin

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how do you think it's being encouraged? If people want to build a private hospital they can. If they want to build a spar they can. What a private organisation does has no baring on a national strategy.

I haven't heard the hse said there's no requirement. If you ask any village in the country they'll tell you they want a hospital. That doesn't mean you base your national strategy on health around the out of date idea that you have a million little hospitals in each county. It's not cost effective and its not appropriate.
100+
 

kerdasi amaq

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What Ennis can't support is both a Public Hospital and a Private one.

So, for the free market privateers to make money, the state owned Hospital has to go! Swine.
 

Nemi_

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If Ennis is too small for a public hospital, how come it's big enough for a private hospital that is bigger than the public hospital they're trying to shut down?
That's a good question. I'm not sure the answer, though, is that clear.

There's already a massive over-provision of private hospital space in the country. I'm not sure the promoters of this turkey actually would find a market, if they actually manage to get the thing built.

So why are they doing it? I've no idea. But do take a reality check over all the property that has been built over the past few years, where you'd equally say 'why the feck did they do that?' It could be as simple as hoping the value of the site will be higher if its zoned for a hospital instead of whatever its zoned for at the moment.

But I certainly wouldn't assume that the fact someone is applying for planning permission is evidence that this is a commercially viable project.
 

kevmac

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Can I ask a simple question? Why does everyone in this country seem to want a hospital (obviously with a full complement of specialisms five mins from their home). In Scotland people who live in rural areas understand that a draw back of this is there isn't a hospital nearby. People in this country really need to cop on
 

indy

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Why does everyone in this country seem to want a hospital (obviously with a full complement of specialisms five mins from their home).
Your question is hard to address because it suggests that people want services to be much more dispersed than they currently are.

I believe the reality is that most people simply want the status quo to be maintained - specifically, no closure or downgrading of services that are already installed.

You seem to be dismissing the majority desire as an outrageous fantasy. The fact that it is the established status quo means it cannot be painted as an outrageous fantasy. It is actually the current reality.
 

spidermom

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Can I ask a simple question? Why does everyone in this country seem to want a hospital (obviously with a full complement of specialisms five mins from their home). In Scotland people who live in rural areas understand that a draw back of this is there isn't a hospital nearby. People in this country really need to cop on
Your question is hard to address because it suggests that people want services to be much more dispersed than they currently are.

I believe the reality is that most people simply want the status quo to be maintained - specifically, no closure or downgrading of services that are already installed.

You seem to be dismissing the majority desire as an outrageous fantasy. The fact that it is the established status quo means it cannot be painted as an outrageous fantasy. It is actually the current reality.

To Kevmac..it must seem a bit daft alright...but should be understood that the UK have a functioning multidisciplinary GP practise system....WE DO NOT!!

The reality is we are closing down "small hospitals" where locally they can deliever diagnostics,physio,OT,short stay respite,endoscopy, medical treatment!

Even FG with their Fair Care want a GP service to deliever the above......Personallly I do not want my GP doing my annual colonoscopy....I want my surgeon!!....
We should be moving more multidiscplinary GP type services into the facilities that exist.....i.e the local "small Hospitals!"....especially the out of hours service....mini poly clinics...


PLUS...we would then NOT have to offer tax breaks for private GP clinics to be established!
We use the resources we have!!!.......
 

TradCat

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Can I ask a simple question? Why does everyone in this country seem to want a hospital (obviously with a full complement of specialisms five mins from their home). In Scotland people who live in rural areas understand that a draw back of this is there isn't a hospital nearby. People in this country really need to cop on
Nobody trusts the politicians to allocate services on any other basis than a corrupt one. That's why we elect them! So if your town is losing a hospital it must be because some other TD is doing a better job. And that's possibly even the way it works.

If I was in Ennis I'd be happier to have a private hospital and I'd make sure I was covered to use it. But then I don't drink or smoke so I can afford it.
 

TonyBird

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But then I don't drink or smoke so I can afford it.
Ah the epitaph of another Celtic tiger cub . Its always me , me , me .
Good luck with that .
Now in the real,natural,decent world Ennis should have its own PUBLIC hospital.Alas, thanks to 'me feiners' aka PDs , our health system is destroyed.
 

TradCat

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TonyBird

The real Me Fein position is to believe that you are entitled to something without paying for it. We have a 20 billion hole in the public finances and a health system costing 13 billion a year. Pay your way. If you can afford an Internet connection you can afford Heath insurance.
 

TonyBird

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TonyBird

The real Me Fein position is to believe that you are entitled to something without paying for it. We have a 20 billion hole in the public finances and a health system costing 13 billion a year. Pay your way. If you can afford an Internet connection you can afford Heath insurance.
Fair point . I disagree . I believe in a functioning state . I believe we pay for one , so we should have one . I am against 'dog eat dog' style anarchy .
 

greengoose2

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To Kevmac..it must seem a bit daft alright...but should be understood that the UK have a functioning multidisciplinary GP practise system....WE DO NOT!!

The reality is we are closing down "small hospitals" where locally they can deliever diagnostics,physio,OT,short stay respite,endoscopy, medical treatment!

Even FG with their Fair Care want a GP service to deliever the above......Personallly I do not want my GP doing my annual colonoscopy....I want my surgeon!!....
We should be moving more multidiscplinary GP type services into the facilities that exist.....i.e the local "small Hospitals!"....especially the out of hours service....mini poly clinics...


PLUS...we would then NOT have to offer tax breaks for private GP clinics to be established!
We use the resources we have!!!.......
Now you are talking sense! Not everybody needs "center of excellence care" and by this token a great deal of misery is to be heaped on patients who need care but not specialist. Broken legs, bellyaches, migraines, tonsilitis and god knows whatever else.

It is disgusting to see the long corridors full of A+E patients waiting miserably for hours on end on whatever they can find to sit on. In potential centers of excellence I might add.

I also believe that we will never "ENJOY" the benefits of a real "Center of Excellence" because of out pathetic Irish attitude to excellence. There is a preponderance in this country to sleaze, money grabbing and corruption that precludes this!
 


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