We have funding for the moment so why does the budget have to be pushed through?

Mar Tweedy

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What is behind the push to force through the budget?

I understand that that is what the EU/IMF want, but we are funded, we don't need to draw down assistance immediately, why can't we have our election and get a democratic mandate for what the people want and then go back to the IMF/EU?

Why does Eamon Ryan keep insisting it is in the "national interest" that a budget go through on December 7th. It is in the interest of the ECB, EU and IMF who are terrified of contagion but it is not in the interest of our people that we are pushed into a budget before there is a national poll on the matter.

I've just heard Peter Power FF (of course) on Pat Kenny saying it would be 'silly' to have an election now as we need to do what is really important and do the politics after. What? Drive through the IMF/EU agenda before consulting with the people. That man shouldn't be in Dail Eireann if he doesn't understand democracy.

The budget must fail and the people must get a choice.
 


Asparagus

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It is national disinterest of course.

The IMF want to negotiate with a weak and defeated government, fully focussed on saving what is left of their skins.
They absolutely don't want to sit down and "break" a strong mandated government thet could be reliant on a sinn fein support.
They absolutely don't want an election with the bail out as the main issue as it would only strengthen the hand of anti bailout parties and candidates.

Fianna Fail are desperate to cling to power so that can claim they had a part in the recovery.
They are desperate to cut the expenditure and leave the pay cuts to next year so that they can tell the PS that they never cut their pay.
The are hellbent on protecting their interests and ensuring that the detail of teh budget best suits their 2011 and 2016 election prospects.
 

Asparagus

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Come January 1st, the country needs a budget or the whole country grinds slowly to a halt.
No.It.Doesn't.

We have funding for the first 6 months.

I worked in the education sector a few years back - we didn't even find out the budget for our section until july or august most years.

IMF can wait....
 

ifreannach

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It is national disinterest of course.

The IMF want to negotiate with a weak and defeated government, fully focussed on saving what is left of their skins.
They absolutely don't want to sit down and "break" a strong mandated government thet could be reliant on a sinn fein support.
They absolutely don't want an election with the bail out as the main issue as it would only strengthen the hand of anti bailout parties and candidates.

Fianna Fail are desperate to cling to power so that can claim they had a part in the recovery.
They are desperate to cut the expenditure and leave the pay cuts to next year so that they can tell the PS that they never cut their pay.
The are hellbent on protecting their interests and ensuring that the detail of teh budget best suits their 2011 and 2016 election prospects.
good points, also because i would say that if they pass the budget there will be a nice handshake for the boys for ensuring we the people are beaten into debt slavery for the rest of our natural lives. the madness needs to stop, all the talk of contagion really makes me laugh, if we have are contagious why are all these agencies and countries so interested in getting into bed with us by offering loans?
 

thebig C

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They keep pushing this notion that if we don't pass the FF/Green budget then the EU/IMF will withdraw their bailout offer.

So far nobody in the media has seen the obvious stupidity of that statement.....

If we really are so bad that we risk bringing down the Euro and the EU, then surely not offering a bailout because they won't wait for a few weeks for a new Government will only speed up the destruction of the EU!!!???
 

grafter1

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What is behind the push to force through the budget?

I understand that that is what the EU/IMF want, but we are funded, we don't need to draw down assistance immediately, why can't we have our election and get a democratic mandate for what the people want and then go back to the IMF/EU?

Why does Eamon Ryan keep insisting it is in the "national interest" that a budget go through on December 7th. It is in the interest of the ECB, EU and IMF who are terrified of contagion but it is not in the interest of our people that we are pushed into a budget before there is a national poll on the matter.

I've just heard Peter Power FF (of course) on Pat Kenny saying it would be 'silly' to have an election now as we need to do what is really important and do the politics after. What? Drive through the IMF/EU agenda before consulting with the people. That man shouldn't be in Dail Eireann if he doesn't understand democracy.

The budget must fail and the people must get a choice.
This is my answer to your OP. It's probably not the answer you are looking for but anyway here it goes.

Ireland is causing huge concern to the whole of Europe at present. Some of the larger countries are already not our biggest fans as a result of the Corporation Tax issue but they've decided to let that one pass. The European Central Bank has pumped a hundred billion into our banks - not to bail them out but to ensure that Irish people can withdraw cash from the ATMs and know that their deposits are safe.

This nonesense that its all the German banks fault for lending us the money is horses**t. Where is our own accountability? Where are the Jack O'Connors, the Bertie Aherns, the David Beggs and so on who spent this money? The money wasnt used solely for idiotic banking purposes/speculation. A lot of the money borrowed has been used to pay public sector wages, social welfare etc.

Its so bloody Irish to blame everybody else. I didnt cause this mess no more than the next average person but ultimately we had interest groups throughout society looking for more and more money (for worthwhile causes im sure) and who are all now keeping their heads down

Ireland has money for a few months. We either take a loan from the EU/IMF which will give us 4 years to get back to borrowing of 3% as a portion of GDP or we tell them where to go and we run down what little the NTMA has left and we make 19Bn of savings in a year. i.e. we literally pay wages and welfare as we collect taxes.

Anyway its a terrible situation but anyone saying this budget doesnt have to go through is living in cloud cuckoo land. The minute we stop borrowing money is the minute we can tell the IMF to get out of our country.

The country has been brought to its knees by many people from politicians, to bankers to civil servants to union representatives to those who voted for Fianna Fail.
 

Indiansign

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Apr 13, 2010
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An alternative to pushing the budget back would be to bring it forward. At least two government ministers, including Cowen himself during his speech on the steps of the Dail, yesterday stated that the budget is already formulated.
Then bring it before the Dail this week! If it passes, then that's the "national interest" taken care of, and we can proceed to election mode. If it falls, then better to fall now than in two weeks time - at least there would be some room to hold the election with the possibility of a budget being passed by end December.

That would really be in the national interest.
 

Skinner

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Its becoming more obvious that the traitorous thieving gombeens (ff) are simply doing as much damage to their opponents before they hide under a rock, while the country goes to ruin.

They are desperate to save the layer of people who borrowed for btl mortgages, 10s of thousands of them, and desperate to lay the blame and burden on the poorest, oldest (outside their gombeen support base) and most vulnerable.

They are desperate to leave the country in a crippled state so that in 2 elections they can get their smarmy lying thieving a$$es back into the positions of financial control.

These are just some of the most obvious reasons 'why' the budget must be passed, which are also excellent reasons why we need to do whatever is necessary to prevent such a(nother) crime against the citizens being committed.
 

ONQ

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I have no problem with brining in a budget.

However brining in a draconian budget before indigenous economic recovery will break Ireland - simple as that.

This is all too much, too late.

Looking for a 6Bn budget reduction would have been bearable in 2006.

Looking for a 4Bn reduction could have been done in 2008.

Right now I'd say all we can afford is a 2-3Bn reduction.

Any more and there will be no recovery to speak of.

For twenty years - prove me wrong if you can!

Breaing the system you expect to pay the price is not the way forward.

Even the Europeans don't want us to be as harsh as Cowan et al.

This draconian stragtegy is a poison pill for their successors.

ONQ.
 

Marbellabound

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They keep pushing this notion that if we don't pass the FF/Green budget then the EU/IMF will withdraw their bailout offer.

So far nobody in the media has seen the obvious stupidity of that statement.....

If we really are so bad that we risk bringing down the Euro and the EU, then surely not offering a bailout because they won't wait for a few weeks for a new Government will only speed up the destruction of the EU!!!???


Fully agree, we have had this mess for over two years now so another few months won't make any difference. As someone else said it suits the IMF to deal with a Government that is on the way out as they no longer care about the outcome. It also gives the new government the "you put this budget in place and tied us to it for 4 years" line, which in effect means we will almost certainly get another shower of wasters.

We need the new Government, whoever they are, to be fully accountable for the budget that is introduced in this critical time.

My apologies in advance, but anyone who can't see this is an idiot.
 

grafter1

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I'd agree 100% by the way that it would be in the best interests of everybody concerned if the new government (FG/Lab???) were setting the 4 year plan and the upcoming budget.
 

Asparagus

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This is my answer to your OP. It's probably not the answer you are looking for but anyway here it goes.

Ireland is causing huge concern to the whole of Europe at present. Some of the larger countries are already not our biggest fans as a result of the Corporation Tax issue but they've decided to let that one pass. The European Central Bank has pumped a hundred billion into our banks - not to bail them out but to ensure that Irish people can withdraw cash from the ATMs and know that their deposits are safe.
So yes i get it - Europe have an interest in getting their money back.

This nonesense that its all the German banks fault for lending us the money is horses**t. Where is our own accountability? Where are the Jack O'Connors, the Bertie Aherns, the David Beggs and so on who spent this money? The money wasnt used solely for idiotic banking purposes/speculation. A lot of the money borrowed has been used to pay public sector wages, social welfare etc.
Where is the german banks responsibility for reckless lending. Why does the irish tax payer have to pay the entire bill for poor european banking?

Why does the tax payer have to bear full responsibility for irresponsible politicking?
Its so bloody Irish to blame everybody else. I didnt cause this mess no more than the next average person but ultimately we had interest groups throughout society looking for more and more money (for worthwhile causes im sure) and who are all now keeping their heads down
Its more irish to play the big man, refuse to admit we're broke and try and pay the bill taht we can't afford.

Ireland has money for a few months. We either take a loan from the EU/IMF which will give us 4 years to get back to borrowing of 3% as a portion of GDP or we tell them where to go and we run down what little the NTMA has left and we make 19Bn of savings in a year. i.e. we literally pay wages and welfare as we collect taxes.
Or we default and leave the euro, establish a new currency and tie it to sterling.
Anyway its a terrible situation but anyone saying this budget doesnt have to go through is living in cloud cuckoo land. The minute we stop borrowing money is the minute we can tell the IMF to get out of our country.
Cloud cuckoo land is closer to reality than the lies and spin that propogate CowenLand
The country has been brought to its knees by many people from politicians, to bankers to civil servants to union representatives to those who voted for Fianna Fail.
And yet you support them when they tell you that this is the only show in town....
 

Skinner

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We need the new Government, whoever they are, to be fully accountable for the budget that is introduced in this critical time.

My apologies in advance, but anyone who can't see this is an idiot.
So obvious what you say, and yet why are none of the large political parties shouting this from the rooftops :rolleyes:

Oh, please don't apologize for making perfect sense :lol:
Its a rare commodity that we need lots more of.
 

Asparagus

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I'd agree 100% by the way that it would be in the best interests of everybody concerned if the new government (FG/Lab???) were setting the 4 year plan and the upcoming budget.
So lets have an election and do a budget a on christmas eve...
How dickensian...
 

Tea Party Patriot

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Oct 31, 2010
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What is behind the push to force through the budget?

I understand that that is what the EU/IMF want, but we are funded, we don't need to draw down assistance immediately, why can't we have our election and get a democratic mandate for what the people want and then go back to the IMF/EU?

Why does Eamon Ryan keep insisting it is in the "national interest" that a budget go through on December 7th. It is in the interest of the ECB, EU and IMF who are terrified of contagion but it is not in the interest of our people that we are pushed into a budget before there is a national poll on the matter.

I've just heard Peter Power FF (of course) on Pat Kenny saying it would be 'silly' to have an election now as we need to do what is really important and do the politics after. What? Drive through the IMF/EU agenda before consulting with the people. That man shouldn't be in Dail Eireann if he doesn't understand democracy.

The budget must fail and the people must get a choice.
The one thing Eamon Gilmore forgot to mention last night when he came out with the ridiculous statement that €4.5 billion in cut backs would suffice is that the availability of funding from the IMF is contingent on €6 billion in cut backs. More economic spin from a populist party that doesn't want to tell the truth to the Irish people, reminiscent of Bertie Ahern.
 

Asparagus

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The one thing Eamon Gilmore forgot to mention last night when he came out with the ridiculous statement that €4.5 billion in cut backs would suffice is that the availability of funding from the IMF is contingent on €6 billion in cut backs. More economic spin from a populist party that doesn't want to tell the truth to the Irish people, reminiscent of Bertie Ahern.
The IMF are in no position to dictate anything - they have negotiated something with a failed defeated government and this is all guff and bluster if we have an election and they will renegotiate.

We have the bomb people - while we don't want to use it - lets stop being treated like peasants.
 

grafter1

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So yes i get it - Europe have an interest in getting their money back.



Where is the german banks responsibility for reckless lending. Why does the irish tax payer have to pay the entire bill for poor european banking?

Why does the tax payer have to bear full responsibility for irresponsible politicking?

Its more irish to play the big man, refuse to admit we're broke and try and pay the bill taht we can't afford.


Or we default and leave the euro, establish a new currency and tie it to sterling.

Cloud cuckoo land is closer to reality than the lies and spin that propogate CowenLand

And yet you support them when they tell you that this is the only show in town....[/QUOTE]

Hey i'm not trying to enforce my opinions on you - what right do i have to do such a thing? If you believe the German banks were reckless in lending to us and its therefore their fault that's fair enough. I don't buy that. However i also feel why should the bondholders in General Motors be different to the bondholders in Anglo Irish Bank which is more along your lines of thinking i believe.

I firmly believe that there is a serious prospect of Portugal and Spain following our path. Europe is trying to solve a debt crisis by throwing more debt at the situation. That is why ultimately i believe that we should make the cuts over 2 years.

Its also fascinating how posters like yourself throw insults at posters like me who express our opinions that aren't aligned to your own. I think Pol Pot had similar feelings to people who weren't aligned to his own views of the world.

Read the Run on Ireland thread if you believe my thinking is in any way influenced by FF or the people in power
 

HarshBuzz

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to answer the OP question:

because if we don't get the terms of the EU\IMF bailout agreed asap, there is real danger that all of the Irish banks will collapse. That would lead to the collapse of the Euro.

that's why
 


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