'We need new allies in the EU' - Donohoe

Deadlock

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Reported in today's Indo.

'We need new allies in the EU' - Donohoe - Independent.ie

What alliances should we develop post-Brexit? In order to maintain our status quo we need to think outside of the North West Atlantic box. What interests do we seek to protect most vigorously, and what allies with similar aims can we culture?

Trade - membership of BeNeLux? Champion open markets. Leverage German support?
Tax competences - ally with Sweden, Denmark, NL, Estonia, Luxembourg, Malta, Cyprus - keep tax competences exclusively national affairs?
Agricultural affairs - France?

Associate/observer status within Visegrad? - Keep an eye on the East of the Union.

What other interests do we identify and protect? What allies can we make and can rely on to protect them?

What does P.ie think?
 


Dame_Enda

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This is true. But we also need an alliance with Trump who might be able to help us with the Apple ruling. SFs dependence on US fundraising can also give him leverage, and he might welcome opportunity to look like a peacemaker by resolving the NI dispute between DUP and SF.
 

gleeful

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Its a bit of a myth that the UK was our allay in the EU. Records show that in the Council of Ministers the UK voted against us more often than any other state. In the EU Parliament neither of the UK's two main parties (ie. UKIP and Tories) are in any grouping with any Irish MEPs.

The UK has been an outlier for a long time.
 

Erudite Caveman

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This is true. But we also need an alliance with Trump who might be able to help us with the Apple ruling.
Your really don't inhabit the real world at all do you?

A) Trump cant 'help' with the ruling because he is president of America, not of the EU

B) Trump has made it very clear that he wants to do anything but help countries that are getting the proceeds of taxation on profits from US companies.
 

locke

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I think Benelux would require going into Schengen considering Benelux had open borders before Schengen came along.

Our natural allies in terms of interest are The Netherlands, Luxembourg, Estonia, Cyprus and Malta. However, only one of them has serious pull.

I would imagine there are other countries where we could affect a relationship of convenience where we back their interest in an area we don't care much about and they do the same for us. Potentials in this regard are Portugal, Slovakia, Finland and at a bit of a push Croatia and Spain.

The problem with looking at countries with similar agricultural interests is that they may regard themselves as competitors as much as having a similar interest.
 

Deadlock

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I think Benelux would require going into Schengen considering Benelux had open borders before Schengen came along.

Our natural allies in terms of interest are The Netherlands, Luxembourg, Estonia, Cyprus and Malta. However, only one of them has serious pull.

I would imagine there are other countries where we could affect a relationship of convenience where we back their interest in an area we don't care much about and they do the same for us. Potentials in this regard are Portugal, Slovakia, Finland and at a bit of a push Croatia and Spain.

The problem with looking at countries with similar agricultural interests is that they may regard themselves as competitors as much as having a similar interest.
Good points - thanks. As you say we need also allies with clout, but in a post U.K. EU the arithmetic of blocking minorities in QMV will also change.
 

Erudite Caveman

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Its a bit of a myth that the UK was our allay in the EU. Records show that in the Council of Ministers the UK voted against us more often than any other state. In the EU Parliament neither of the UK's two main parties (ie. UKIP and Tories) are in any grouping with any Irish MEPs.

The UK has been an outlier for a long time.
In many, if not most of those occasions they were voting against agricultural subsidies. In other words they were probably right, but it wasn't in our interest to do the right thing (not complaining - that's the way it works). And when we did find them as a useful ally it was over things like the corporation tax. We are definitely in a weaker position as a result of them going, and are going to have to find allies based on something other than geography or history, because we don't feature on the radar of most countries in either case.
 

Burnout

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I have a life.
If we want more 'partners' like the one's we (Enda Donohue) adore...we are going to have to give something in exchange...we have already given away a multi billion € fish industry to be invited into the party...I suppose we could discuss the '12.5% tax' issue to keep up membership.
 

locke

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With their current Governments, an alliance with Poland or Hungary could be counter-productive
 

Hans Von Horn

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Reported in today's Indo.

'We need new allies in the EU' - Donohoe - Independent.ie

What alliances should we develop post-Brexit? In order to maintain our status quo we need to think outside of the North West Atlantic box. What interests do we seek to protect most vigorously, and what allies with similar aims can we culture?

Trade - membership of BeNeLux? Champion open markets. Leverage German support?
Tax competences - ally with Sweden, Denmark, NL, Estonia, Luxembourg, Malta, Cyprus - keep tax competences exclusively national affairs?
Agricultural affairs - France?

Associate/observer status within Visegrad? - Keep an eye on the East of the Union.

What other interests do we identify and protect? What allies can we make and can rely on to protect them?

What does P.ie think?
What Pascal is really saying is that:
(1) We have virtually no influence in Europe
(2) That we have no weight in qualified majority voting
(3) That we have interests to protect that the decision makers wish to undermine
(4) That this EU membership coat does not fit that well and that we cannot expect it to fit us well into the future.
(5) That the EU Super State will evolve much more quickly after Brexit
(6) That our strategy of discounted tax rate advantage will be eroded.
(7) That the EU plan for Brexit revenge will really hurt Irish Food exports and that we have insufficient influence to stop EU revenge on the UK severely damaging us.
(8) That we have failed to cultivate good or useful allies in the EU to date.
(9) That the EU Trade deals with non EU high value markets did not take account of Ireland's food industry exports.
(10) That we have no friends in the EU.
 

Erudite Caveman

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That Austria may also seek membership speaks to its advantages. However, their emphasis on nuclear power and industries may make the fit less comfortable for clean green Ireland.
The sooner people click that nuclear power = green power the better.
 

Cellachán Chaisil

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Scotland would be a perfect ally.
 

ne0ica

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With their current Governments, an alliance with Poland or Hungary could be counter-productive
Why? Strong governments with the majority support of their populations unlike our government of FG and a cohort of crazy Independents.
 

runwiththewind

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Its a bit of a myth that the UK was our allay in the EU. Records show that in the Council of Ministers the UK voted against us more often than any other state. In the EU Parliament neither of the UK's two main parties (ie. UKIP and Tories) are in any grouping with any Irish MEPs.

The UK has been an outlier for a long time.

Finally, some truth emerging.

What we need to align ourselves with the other small nations in the EU and bump up our numbers.
 

Passer-by

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In many, if not most of those occasions they were voting against agricultural subsidies.
No it wasn't just agricultural subsidies. The UK has for years consistently voted against our positions in just about every area that the EU covers (and there are something like thirteen different one e.g. the environment etc etc).

We are definitely in a weaker position as a result of them going,
Losing a country that consistently votes against our positions puts us in a stronger position, not a weaker one, as it means that the positions we favour are more likely to be adopted (and/or rejected should we oppose a position).

and are going to have to find allies based on something other than geography or history, because we don't feature on the radar of most countries in either case.
Allies are found based on sharing common interests not based on geography or history. It would take either an extraordinarily poor Minister (or MEP) OR for us to adopt an extreme position for us to fail to find allies who wouldn't share our concerns and/or interests given the diversity in both the Council of Ministers and the EP.
 

Erudite Caveman

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No it wasn't just agricultural subsidies. The UK has for years consistently voted against our positions in just about every area that the EU covers (and there are something like thirteen different one e.g. the environment etc etc).

Losing a country that consistently votes against our positions puts us in a stronger position, not a weaker one, as it means that the positions we favour are more likely to be adopted (and/or rejected should we oppose a position).
Not all votes are of equal importance. We have lost an ally in the single biggest issue for us at EU level - maintaining the corporation tax. You can dress it up whatever way you want, but the reality is that the Irish government saw the UK as a very useful ally in the EU.

Allies are found based on sharing common interests not based on geography or history. It would take either an extraordinarily poor Minister (or MEP) OR for us to adopt an extreme position for us to fail to find allies who wouldn't share our concerns and/or interests given the diversity in both the Council of Ministers and the EP.
And geography and history feed hugely into that. Where you have strong cultural connections, like between Britain and Ireland, there is a persistence of contacts. We have a lot of work to do to develop what are transient alliances on individual issues into something firmer.
 


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