We were never meant to know how much our President spent mourning a dead Pope

Grumpy Jack

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Has anyone asked who actually booked this hotel and signed off on these charges?

I hardly think Mary or Martin McAleese went on lastminute.com to find a hotel in Rome once JPII checked out and they knew they were going to the funeral.

Was it an official in Aras an Uachtarain? Dept of Taoiseach? Dept of Foreign Affairs?

As for flying into Rome on the Govt jet that morning, from what I remember at the time Rome's airports and airspace were closed on the day of the funeral for security reasons.
 


corelli

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It's well known that the Department of Health leaks like a sieve. A friend of mine, working with a daily paper here, often gets a call to collect confidential documents left in a local pub for him. Local to Hawkins House that is. On one occasion he came into the office to find literally BOXES of files left for him.
 

The Field Marshal

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The title in the thread is ridiculous, would the President ever be mourning a live Pope?

Getting hotels in Rome at the time of the Popes funeral, was a complete bunfight. Besides, what do people expect, the President should stay in a motel 6? That would be a bigger story.
Usual black & white, feast or a famine, Irish hysteria.
 

The Field Marshal

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I have absolute respect for the Pope and what he represents, but this lark of he being head of state is a joke. It was used to make British taxpayer pay for most of his trip to UK. Head of state of a small walled area with population of 800 people, resulting from concordat signed by Mussolini and Pope at time ? And should not church of man supposedly born in a stable divest itself of all this nonsense of embassies, ambassadors, nuncios etc,diplomatic service etc which costs so much in a world beset by poverty. Let it concentrate on the higher things,its function is spiritual not temporal.
The Pope can not be the subject citizen of another country.
Such status could compromise his independance and integrity.

Your reference to a man born in a stable is the usual fake pious claptrap insinuating that Christianity is not real unless all its members are dirt poor and starving.

Many of the more ignorant leftie clerics in Ireland & abroad trade and continue to peddle this begruding shyte.
 
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The Field Marshal

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It's well known that the Department of Health leaks like a sieve. A friend of mine, working with a daily paper here, often gets a call to collect confidential documents left in a local pub for him. Local to Hawkins House that is. On one occasion he came into the office to find literally BOXES of files left for him.
Its the building itself Corelli.

There is a curse on it.

It originally was the site of the old theatre royal.

It is also the ugliest building in the world.

The combo is lethal.
 
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former wesleyan

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Does anyone know how the visit was viewed at the time and not now with the sudden emphasis on "the taxpayer " ?:p
 

Grumpy Jack

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Does anyone know how the visit was viewed at the time and not now with the sudden emphasis on "the taxpayer " ?:p
This 'Snouts in the Trough' book could be a double-edged sword and as potentially dangerous as it is enlightening.

There is a good chance that we will end up throwing out the baby with the bath water by viewing all trips as junkets due to the excesses and abuses of the taxpayer by the likes of John O'Donoghue and Mary Harney.

If people think the next government will cut back on these trips they are very much mistaken.

When they take office, new ministers and this president and her successor will have to undertake a hell of a lot of trips in the coming years to repair the damage done by Fianna Fail to the Irish economy and Ireland's image among decisionmakers worldwide.

Will such trips in search of jobs and investment and to encourage tourism to Ireland still be seen as junkets then?
 

Tomas Mor

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The Pope can not be the subject citizen of another country.
Such status could compromise his independance and integrity.

Your reference to a man born in a stable is the usual fake pious claptrap insinuating that Christianity is not real unless all its members are dirt poor and starving.

Many of the more ignorant leftie clerics in Ireland & abroad trade and continue to peddle this begruding shyte.

So the Pope must have all this pomp and wealth around him, and be a head of state to preserve his independence and integrity - such clap trap. Is he a modern day Borgian or Dogé of Venice ? You and I have our integrity and independence and we are not heads of state.
 

The Field Marshal

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So the Pope must have all this pomp and wealth around him,
What pomp or wealth.?
All heads of state are surrounded by trappings of this nature.
It goes with the job.
It is not the Popes personal wealth.

You obviously want a Pope going around in a hoodie and sneakers on a bicycle subject to all the laws of a secular Italian or some other state subject to deparadations of secular enemies.:rolleyes:

and be a head of state to preserve his independence and integrity - such clap trap.
If the moral & spiritual head of the catholic church were to be a citizen of a specific country he would be compromised.

If he were a USA citizen for example how do you think his message would go down.?

Grow up.:rolleyes:



Is he a modern day Borgian or Dogé of Venice ? You and I have our integrity and independence and we are not heads of state.
You & I are not called upon to be Christs Vicar on earth or to give moral and spiritual guidence to a billion catholics.

You are obviously unable to spot the difference.:rolleyes::rolleyes:
 

Mushroom

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This 'Snouts in the Trough' book could be a double-edged sword and as potentially dangerous as it is enlightening.

There is a good chance that we will end up throwing out the baby with the bath water by viewing all trips as junkets due to the excesses and abuses of the taxpayer by the likes of John O'Donoghue and Mary Harney.

If people think the next government will cut back on these trips they are very much mistaken.

When they take office, new ministers and this president and her successor will have to undertake a hell of a lot of trips in the coming years to repair the damage done by Fianna Fail to the Irish economy and Ireland's image among decisionmakers worldwide.

Will such trips in search of jobs and investment and to encourage tourism to Ireland still be seen as junkets then?

That depends largely on what hotels are used, whether the spouses pay their own bills, whether limousines are rented and whether or not the services of hairdressers, make-up artists, mini bars or masseuses are put on the Ministerial credit card.
 

Grumpy Jack

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That depends largely on what hotels are used, whether the spouses pay their own bills, whether limousines are rented and whether or not the services of hairdressers, make-up artists, mini bars or masseuses are put on the Ministerial credit card.
I think the days of those extravangances ended with Bertie, Harney and the Bull.

All the revelations to date of outrageous expenses and spending on flights and hotels are from the Bertie era. It's been tightened up significantly under Cowen and Lenihan.

And I believe the next Taoiseach will tightly control the use of the two Govt jets and there will be no chance of either Kenny or Gilmore signing off on five-star hotels and business class flights for ministerial travel.
 

The Field Marshal

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That depends largely on what hotels are used, whether the spouses pay their own bills, whether limousines are rented and whether or not the services of hairdressers, make-up artists, mini bars or masseuses are put on the Ministerial credit card.
The issue is what is an appropriate level of expenditure in these circumstances.?

The problem is that the Irish state officials have taken a view that no expense is to be spared on foreign trips by either the president,taioseach or minister.

A cost benefit analysis needs to be done on all this.

Certainly staying in the most expensive hotels does look OTT.

Ireland also has some of the finest consular buildings in the world.

All paid by the irish taxpayer.

IMHO all Presidents Taoisaigh,ministers should, where feasible stay overnight, in these places,some of which are palaces in their own right

Pic below of irish embassy rome .

irish embassy paris
 

former wesleyan

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Here's the Irish Times of the day :-
The Irish Times - Fri, Apr 08, 2005 - McAleese says Pope's funeral an 'incomparable day'
The Taoiseach Bertie Ahern, Tanaiste Mary Harney and Fine Gael leader Enda Kenny also attended today's funeral.

Meanwhile, thousands have gathered in Dublin's Phoenix Park for a sunset service of remembrance which organisers hope will be attended by people of all faiths.

Event co-ordinator of the service Fr Pat O'Donoghue said all denominations had a role to play in remembering the Pontiff.

The ceremony, to be broadcast on big screens to more than 10,000 worshippers, was organised at the request of the Archbishop of Dublin, Dr Diarmuid Martin.
How much did Bertie and Mary and Edna cost ?

How much did the big screens and security cost the Irish Taxpayer ?

Did Fr O'Donoghues " all denominations " have any choice ?petunia
 

The Field Marshal

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Has the irish president visited Bejing.?

Below is a photo of the Irish embassy in Bejing.

Is a building like this appropriate for a president,taoiseach or minister to overnight in ?


 

Radix

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Did the State contact the Italian authorities to tell them (not ask them) to tell them that the Irish delegation would be leaving that night? No? Why not? Because the President and Co decided to stay overnight at the taxpayers expense -simple as that. THEY made that choice.

All the great Holy See had to do was have one rep plonked at the airport all day - simple as that "bye, bye, come gain"...."bye,bye, come again"...."bye, bye, come again". If they didn't that's their problem, not the States problem. It is upto the host country to make sure a protocol representative welcome and see guests off. And by the way the airport isn't as you know in the Vatican. Let the Holy See protocol officials see off dignateries IN the Vatican - not in Italy. Let the Italian State have protocol officials at the airport.

Make all the excuses you like: the President, Bertie et al made the decision to stay overnight - they didn't have to. I've explained to you what could have been done. But oh no, it's so much easier to waste tax payers money.
Sighing is catching.

Could you ever grow up sighing one.

Is there nothing 'holy' to you anymore, is there nothing that you cannot argue about?

If those global leaders, including our own, by virtue of even one day's extra stay in the holy city managed to further recalibrate their moral compasses in the days around the funeral of a holy man, surely any amount of money would be worth it.

Everytime I read you on this topic I get a greater insight into the meaning of the expression, "he who lies down with dogs, gets up with fleas"; I'm getting itchy now!

You're a good example of the problems that need to be fixed in this country, and I say that with as much itch free charity as I can muster.
 

Tomas Mor

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Has the irish president visited Bejing.?

Below is a photo of the Irish embassy in Bejing.

Is a building like this appropriate for a president,taoiseach or minister to overnight in ?


Why not. You seem to imply it is'nt.
 

The Field Marshal

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Here a photo of the irish embassy in Vilnius latvia on prime land in the city centre.
Obviously one must question if this is appropriate for an Irish president to overnight in

 


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