We're broke - me hole! Tax some of this and leave the little lad alone

j26

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I was just taking a peek at the CSO website to see if anything interesting came up. I was kinda shocked to see this report that Irish residents hold 1.25 trillion (yes, trillion) in foreign equities, bonds and other securities. Even a 1% tax on that would raise 12.5 bilion, more than enough to get us on the right path.

We are still a very wealthy country - the only reason that the hairshirt line is being taken is that the wealthy do not really want to contribute. As usual the middle income earners, and the people who fell for the lie that they were wealthy (from the crumbs from the top table) are expected to pay.
 


Cael

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Tax the rich??? Are you trying to turn Ireland into North Korea???
 

nonpartyboy

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On top of that the waste of money by the entire government apparatus could only be described as of intergalatic proportions. There is so much fat to be cut, we would certainly have to build a new sewerage system.
 

needle_too

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Irish residents doesnt mean 'Irish people' as in Mick and Biddy up the road.

It means institutions resident in Ireland for tax purposes.

Taxing them, therefore, would remove said purpose for them being here and it would all disappear at the push of a button.
 

jmcc

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Tax the rich??? Are you trying to turn Ireland into North Korea???
But isn't that what you want Cael? :) (I know you were being sarcastic. It was just the shock of you saying something like that.)

Regards...jmcc
 

j26

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You're such a killjoy. The OP has found a magical money tree!
No, just making the point that there's still fantastic wealth out there, and I like most of you out there are expected to pay to preserve it for someone elses benefit.

Add in the overseas properties held by Irish residents, and money in foreign bank accounts, the amount of wealth held overseas by Irish people is enormous.

Why shouldn't the beneficiaries of the boom pay something? Some portion of it should be contributed.
 

hmmm

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No, just making the point that there's still fantastic wealth out there, and I like most of you out there are expected to pay to preserve it for someone elses benefit.
The trouble is there isn't fantastic wealth out there, and plucking meaningless statistics in support of your case won't make it appear.
 

Twin Towers

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Odd figures there. The UK second largest holding (possibly) but only 25% less than the US ? does not sound right.
 

LeDroit

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This is an overly simplistic analysis. That money is not held or owned by Irish people. A foreign MNC resident here could just as easily bugger off if you tried to steal their cash. We're broke alright.
 

ocoonassa

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Taxing them, therefore, would remove said purpose for them being here and it would all disappear at the push of a button.
Only if the level of tax places them at a loss greater than the cost of relocating

Despite your claims they can't all be institutions

Therefore what percentage of these potential targets are held by corporates and what percentage of them are held by private individuals?

Remember lads, we're all in this together.
 

Cael

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But isn't that what you want Cael? :) (I know you were being sarcastic. It was just the shock of you saying something like that.)

Regards...jmcc

Well, my opponents have such fun using that line every second post that I thought I should have a bit of the fun too...
 

Edo

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I was just taking a peek at the CSO website to see if anything interesting came up. I was kinda shocked to see this report that Irish residents hold 1.25 trillion (yes, trillion) in foreign equities, bonds and other securities. Even a 1% tax on that would raise 12.5 bilion, more than enough to get us on the right path.

We are still a very wealthy country - the only reason that the hairshirt line is being taken is that the wealthy do not really want to contribute. As usual the middle income earners, and the people who fell for the lie that they were wealthy (from the crumbs from the top table) are expected to pay.
Indeed - we could also take on all the debt that Irish "residents" have - 2.3 Trillion at the last count - but thankfully the Germans and others are taking responsibility for the misbehaviour of their banks who are "resident" in Ireland.

main problem there is that much of that wealth is in other juristictions. I would say there will be big increases in tax and a lot of "loopholes" will go in the next budget - but this illusion cherished by the left that there are pots of gold lying all around the place in the hands of the rich is for the most part just that - an illusion.

Nearly all the native wealth in this country was and is tied up in property - totally illiquid at the moment- you could force a firesale and see the value shrink by about 95% or so and put multiples on the cost of NAMA and destroy the housing market for the next 25 years or so -and most of the cash that funded all of that came from abroad and most has returned abroad aswell.

There is no simplistic solution to the place we find ourselves in - even if 12.5 billion were found from such a source - you can be damn sure the assets that generated it wont be there next year if they were windfall taxed like this- and we'll still be borrowing 20-25 billion a year to stand still with even less coming in.

While the tax net has to be expanded to some degree - there is a stage that you pass when it becomes self defeating - our main problem is that we are paying out 2007 spending on 1997 tax receipts - something has to give and it is going to have to be spending.
 

Gerard1978

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I was just taking a peek at the CSO website to see if anything interesting came up. I was kinda shocked to see this report that Irish residents hold 1.25 trillion (yes, trillion) in foreign equities, bonds and other securities. Even a 1% tax on that would raise 12.5 bilion, more than enough to get us on the right path.

We are still a very wealthy country - the only reason that the hairshirt line is being taken is that the wealthy do not really want to contribute. As usual the middle income earners, and the people who fell for the lie that they were wealthy (from the crumbs from the top table) are expected to pay.
Oh god!, I wish we had a trillion of wealth to tax, but we dont.
 

Cael

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Only if the level of tax places them at a loss greater than the cost of relocating

Despite your claims they can't all be institutions

Therefore what percentage of these potential targets are held by corporates and what percentage of them are held by private individuals?

Remember lads, we're all in this together.

Your right a chara, a good chunk of those billions are owned by Irish people. Remember that the Irish landowners were paid billions of euro for development land - farmers were given 13 billion euro for land in just three years between 2005 and 2008. Along with another 6 billion in hand outs in the same period. Where is all that money now? You can be sure the famers didnt lose it all. They sent it abroad - just like the English landlords used to do before them.
 

Right is right

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So you basically want to tax every pension fund in Ireland and hit every pensioner, every worker and everyone who requires a State Pension?

You also want to hit all the Investment Fund companies in Ireland with a tax on all their investments which they will have to explain to all their International Investors and Pension Funds - trust me they can disappear very quick along with the 20-30k jobs in this industry.
 

bogtrotter

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Your right a chara, a good chunk of those billions are owned by Irish people. Remember that the Irish landowners were paid billions of euro for development land - farmers were given 13 billion euro for land in just three years between 2005 and 2008. Along with another 6 billion in hand outs in the same period. Where is all that money now? You can be sure the famers didnt lose it all. They sent it abroad - just like the English landlords used to do before them.
You are spot on Gael on this one...There is a lot of wealth out there in our little country hidden away from the tax man and unless there is a serious effort made by our legislators to tax it, thats where it will remain, hidden...I dont buy into this crap that the super wealthy will leave if a wealth tax or higher corporation tax was introduced....Where would they go to?.....
 

ocoonassa

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Remember that the Irish landowners were paid billions of euro for development land
Yes they made some big money alright. In addition over 40% of the total EU total budget goes to subsidise the 6% of people who are landowners. We're taxed for that, and then because of the distortion in the market that the subsidy causes we all have to pay more for our food in the shops into the bargain.

I'd love it if these people had money in foreign equities and it could help Ireland. However the chances of them having to do so are zero given that we're living in a kleptocracy and these people are part of the power elite.
 

ocoonassa

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So you basically want to tax every pension fund in Ireland and hit every pensioner, every worker and everyone who requires a State Pension?.
Is that really what it amounts to? Please explain how.
 

Cailleach

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How about 50% of half a trillion???

Oh god!, I wish we had a trillion of wealth to tax, but we dont.
According to Eamo Ryan's gurus there are 10 bboe (billion barrels of oil equivalent) recoverable oil/gas reserves off the west coast alone - at a conservative estimate that's anywhere between 420 and 540 BILLION smackaroos!

Now, if the Burke/Bertie combo hadn't kicked in we would still have a 50% state equity - which got called in AFTER the oil companies had done the work and discovered the stuff - plus a 9-16% royalty payment regime.

That would yield - as a back of the aul brown envelope figure - anything from 250 to whatever billion you're having yourself.

And still posters here do not appear able/willing to connect ...
 


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