We've non-EU nurses in Ireland yet Irish nursing graduates have to emigrate for work?

vanla sighs

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How come? It doesn't make any sense. I heard some senator mention it in the Seanad (FF if I'm not mistaken - pandering to the gallery no doubt) But I'd often thought about that before. The last time I had to go to A&E it was a nurse from the Philippines as far as I can recall who dealt with me. Of course there are Irish nurses in the system too. But can someone explain to me how Irish nursing graduates have to emigrate because they can't get work here...yet at the very same time non-EU nurses are employed here by the HSE and private hospitals? This simply doesn't make any sense especially at a time when the country is on its knees.

This isn't a "let's send em all packing" thread. I 'm just trying to figure out the logic? Thanks.
 


'orebel

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I may well be wrong but I thought I heard on newstalk today, that of 16,000 nurses who qualified recently, not one has full-time employment with the HSE.
Could that be correct?

BTW those non-EU nurses are mostly hired on contract from recruitment agencies at exorbitant rates.
 

vanla sighs

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I may well be wrong but I thought I heard on newstalk today, that of 16,000 nurses who qualified recently, not one has full-time employment with the HSE.
Could that be correct?

BTW those non-EU nurses are mostly hired on contract from recruitment agencies at exorbitant rates.
Really? I didn't hear that. Scandalous if true. As for contracts they shouldn't be renewed when they expire. And no new contracts should be signed. How the hell is the country supposed to get out of the crap we're in when we've policies like this!
 

ocoonassa

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There is a worldwide shortage of nurses and specialist nurses. Rather than train up specialists from its own unemployed, the EU allows the medical industry to leech them from the third world.
 

ciarok

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Its a bit of a mystery allright. Especially when pay rates are considered - nurses (like everybody) are paid far less in Australia, for example.

Could it have anything to do with the fact that young, female employees of the HSE, once made permanent, breed for ten years? Try getting the same social worker on the same case over a six month period.
 

FutureTaoiseach

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No mystery to me. The motivations behind this are: - a race to the bottom in pay and conditions, and - the politicians' obsession with multiculturalism which is in decline in European politics. Write to Mary Harney to make your views known. This anti-national employment policy must cease. BTW vanla sighs the Senator is Dennis O'Donovan. Good on him. Expect the PC-brigade in the Dublin 4 media to castigate him in the morning knowing their determination to censor debate on immigration.
 

ocoonassa

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Expect the PC-brigade in the Dublin 4 media to castigate him in the morning knowing their determination to censor debate on immigration.
You're letting them do that by bringing race and culture into it. It is an emigration debate. We know how sore emigration is.

This is an issue of the developed world stopping the developing world from doing so by leeching all their professionals. Emigration is even harder on the third world than it was here in the past because all we lost largely were shovel jockeys. They're haemorrhaging their entire professional class.

This is an issue of the EU countries not making their resident industries train their citizens to do the required tasks at hand, but instead letting them draft them in from elsewhere while our unemployment grows. Even 6,000 unskilled permits have been issued so far this year.

However so long as people like you keep banging on about immigrants, race and culture then you're a lost cause with the hypocrites in d4 and elsewhere because they'll paint you as a racist. Truth is that they themselves are racialists because they see the world in "races". They are so desperate themselves then to prove to the world that they are not like this, that they are not racist, that if you step on any of that "race" ground then they'll be all over you like a rash. However you don't even need to go on that ground.
 

vanla sighs

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No mystery to me. The motivations behind this are: - a race to the bottom in pay and conditions, and - the politicians' obsession with multiculturalism which is in decline in European politics. Write to Mary Harney to make your views known. This anti-national employment policy must cease. BTW vanla sighs the Senator is Dennis O'Donovan. Good on him. Expect the PC-brigade in the Dublin 4 media to castigate him in the morning knowing their determination to censor debate on immigration.
How's it goin' FT, long time. But surely the nurses from non-EU countries are on the same pay and conditions as any Irish or other EU nurse would be? Or am I mistaken?

As for multiculturalsim, not too sure where I stand on it, as Ms.Merkel said: ist hast failed. I think it can work but only if those who come into any country actually integrate, if they don't and ghettoise themselves then it will fail and divisions will develop over time. I do believe in immigration control, always have. But that doesn't mean I'm anti-immigration, I'm not. A very big mistake was for the government to allow folks into Ireland back in 2004 without placing any quota system or any work permit system in place. Very, very big mistake and to be perfectly honest I think the vast majority of Irish people feel the same way. Not anti-immigration, controlled immigration - the policy the majority of existing EU States followed back in 2004. Another cockup by FF.
 

FutureTaoiseach

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vanla sighs said:
I do believe in immigration control, always have. But that doesn't mean I'm anti-immigration, I'm not. A very big mistake was for the government to allow folks into Ireland back in 2004 without placing any quota system or any work permit system in place. Very, very big mistake and to be perfectly honest I think the vast majority of Irish people feel the same way. Not anti-immigration, controlled immigration - the policy the majority of existing EU States followed back in 2004. Another cockup by FF.
+1
 

PrinceMax

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I don't know why this is the case, but I'm guessing they were brought in when there was a shortage, and presumably you can't just sack them now because a load of Irish people have graduated and want their jobs.
 

neutral_lurker

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I don't know why this is the case, but I'm guessing they were brought in when there was a shortage, and presumably you can't just sack them now because a load of Irish people have graduated and want their jobs.
I think you are right,I read on another that Philipino nurses have been given permanent contracts, although its deemed a bit controversial
 

firefly123

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Its a bit of a mystery allright. Especially when pay rates are considered - nurses (like everybody) are paid far less in Australia, for example.

Could it have anything to do with the fact that young, female employees of the HSE, once made permanent, breed for ten years? Try getting the same social worker on the same case over a six month period.
Wow they breed for ten years! How very ungracious of women to have children. The one thing this country has going for it in the future is the fact that we are a young and growing population. The rest of Europe is stagnating and it is starting to show. These breeders are providing you with an old age pension.

There has always been a tradition of Irish nurses leaving. It was a chance for a woman to see the world and get away from the repression of ireland. Many settled overseas. Ireland pretty much always had a surplus of nurses so shortages does not explain the foreign staff. Having worked with them most are lovely. The philipinos especially.
There are a lot of myths on this site about how overpaid a nurse is. What usually happens is they take base pay in another country (normally one with a lower cost of living) and compare it to nurses pay here after specialisation. A better one is when the say France or similar has x amount and Ireland has y amount without questioning why that is in the first place. Nothing to do with nurses having to do admin work or a lack of ancillary care staff? In terms of hours worked I seldom see a nurse go home at their appointed hour and most put in 3 or 4 hours extra a week unpaid. My experience is limited to ED staff but I am sure it's similar across the board.
 

OhMyDog

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Could it have anything to do with the fact that young, female employees of the HSE, once made permanent, breed for ten years?
Just to be clear - we're talking spontaneous virgin births here? Unless you're insinuating that they are breeding with young, male employees of the HSE and elsewhere?

I guess part of the EUR7,000 per head these overseas nurses are claimed to have cost to recruit included an operation to remove ovaries from the females.
 

FutureTaoiseach

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I don't know why this is the case, but I'm guessing they were brought in when there was a shortage, and presumably you can't just sack them now because a load of Irish people have graduated and want their jobs.
Why not? We never promised them the right to permanent residency here. Our first duty is to our own unemployed. I am not what the Hard Left call a 'citizen of the world'. I am a citizen of Ireland and Irish interests come first. I'm sick and tired of social-engineering always coming before Irish interests. :rolleyes:
 

Jezza

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It makes about as much sense as French people being told they will have to retire later while young people face 25% unemployment.
 

laidback

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I think you are right,I read on another that Philipino nurses have been given permanent contracts, although its deemed a bit controversial
Thats correct - probably a post of mine you saw. Some people assume that the non EU nurses are paid less - thats not the case - and that they are employed by agencies - not normally the case. the position is that international recruitment agencies got big fees to recruit non EU nurses when there were shortages here. The nurses were directly employed by hospitals on normally 2 year contracts on the normal nursing salary scales. After serving the two years, they could then apply for permanent positions when they arose. So they did! Which means that many sanctioned posts are now filled by non EU nationals and are not available to newly qualified irish nurses. The recruitment ban adds greatly to the problem as nurses retiring or leaving for other reasons are not being replaced. The only work young irish nurses are getting is on short term contracts with agencies - the nurses will get the appropriate salary BUT given the agency's mark up and VAT it costs much more to do it this way except perhaps in the very long term as the HSE wont have pension obligations.

James Bannon FG TD asked a Dail question about the no of non EU nurses with permanent jobs and was not given the information because apparently they 'dont keep the records that way.' I was told (and it may be exagerated) that the very high no of non EU nurses in St Vincents D4 all have permanent contracts - my source was an Irish nurse who works there.

The point is who was responsible for allowing non EU nationals brought it to deal with a temporary shortage while we at great cost trained more of our own to get these permanent posts? It made nonsense of investing in more training places. Such places increased by at least 50% and Irish people were encouraged to enter nursing and now they have to leave.
 
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No mystery to me. The motivations behind this are: - a race to the bottom in pay and conditions, and - the politicians' obsession with multiculturalism which is in decline in European politics. Write to Mary Harney to make your views known. This anti-national employment policy must cease. BTW vanla sighs the Senator is Dennis O'Donovan. Good on him. Expect the PC-brigade in the Dublin 4 media to castigate him in the morning knowing their determination to censor debate on immigration.

As usual FT you have summed up the position exactly right.

+1
 

FutureTaoiseach

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It shows the damage multiculturalism causes to the economy in terms of increasing unemployment of Irish nationals. It is high time for Irish policy-makers (and especially likely future ministers in Labour) to drop multiculturalism like a stone like Angela Merkel is doing. This bird has flown. :roll:
 

Simon.D

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Write to Mary Harney to make your views known.
Lol.... Mary Harney giving a ************************e about what we think... What a funny thought... She's a completely loose cannon without a care in the world when it comes to the electorate, with it being her last term... Contacting your local FF back bencher would be much more worthwhile, they at least have some power over harney, and are desperate to earn some cudos...
 


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