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What Alan Shatter should say to Tzipi Livni


timhorgan

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According to news reports Alan Shatter is due to meet Israeli Army Commanders and Tzipi Livni when he visits the Middle East next week -

This is what the excellent Daniel Machover wrote when David Miliband, then Foreign Secreatry was due to meet Tzipi Livni
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According to news reports, David Miliband plans to call the leader of the Israeli opposition, Tzipi Livni, to explain the British government's stance on the grant of an arrest warrant against her when she had been due to speak at a Jewish National Fund meeting in Hendon.

One reasonable version of this call to Livni is as follows:

"I am calling to explain why it would be wrong for me to apologise publicly or privately for the apparent decision by one of this country's independent judiciary to issue an arrest warrant against you.

"I should first explain that the British legal system has a strong tradition of fairness. All people under criminal investigation or criminal charge are entitled to the presumption of innocence: that is, they are presumed innocent unless and until convicted through a fair trial on the criminal standard of proof (that is, beyond reasonable doubt). Therefore, nobody here is saying you have been found guilty of any offence and any comments of this kind would be unacceptable.

http://www.icawc.net/fonds/What David Miliband should say to Tzipi Livni.htm

What I would like to know is whether Shatter, having arranged to be briefed by Israeli Army officers, has also asked to be briefed by former Irish Army officers who have extensive knowledge of the situation - officers such as Captain John Ging of the UN and Col.Desmond Travers of the Goldstone Commission. If not, why not?
 
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timhorgan

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This is what Col. Desmond Travers had to say - which should be of concern to our Minister for Defence-

The impact of the Goldstone Report has resonated around the globe and has already affected international relations as well as international law. Asked how he felt about the impact the report is having in terms of Universal Jurisdiction, which is the body of law which allowed for a British arrest warrant to be issued recently against former Israeli Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni, he responded, "I think it's fantastic. Let militaries all over the world take heed and politicians take heed of this fact, that their holiday travel arrangements might be severely curtailed if they do naughty things!" Furthermore, as he pointed out, even before the military action had begun, "there were extremely aggressive statements made about what the Israelis would do when they went into Gaza made by Tzipi Livni and by the Minster of Defence and by several generals and some academics. Those statements are incitements of war crimes in their own right." He also spoke about the rather worrying developments of a "very fervid Rabbinate in the military".
Question - Does Minister Shatter agree with Col. Travers or does he agree with the Israeli Army versions-

http://www.middleeastmonitor.com/articles/62-europe/625-qgaza-is-the-only-gulag-in-the-western-hemisphere-maintained-by-democracies-closed-off-from-food-water-airq-says-colonel-desmond-travers-co-author-of-the-goldstone-report-in-an-exclusive-memo-interview
 

timhorgan

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Does Shatter owe allegiance to Israel rather than Ireland?
The Irish Minister for Defence is reported to have made arrangements to meet leaders of the Israeli Northern Command. General Yair Golan is the present commander and protocol would dictate that it is Golan who will meet the minister-

Kawther.Info - IDF War Criminals & Terrorists :: Yair Golan

As Col. Desmond Travers has served both in Lebanon and in Northern Israel it would be interesting to know if the Minister for Defence has asked for a background briefing by Col. Travers.
 

Dame_Enda

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I hope Shatter does not do anything controversial over there, like saying 'I agree with the IDF's actions following the briefing'. This govt has already undermined Irish neutrality in Mali.
blokesbloke said:
Do RC politicians ultimately owe allegiance to the Vatican?
Catholicism isn't an ethnicity or national identity though. I saw a recent UK poll which showed most regarded supporting Israel as an important part of being Jewish (around 85%).
 
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timhorgan

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Dame_Enda;6515737]I hope Shatter does not do anything controversial over there, like saying 'I agree with the IDF's actions following the briefing'.
Perhaps Minister Shatter will ask General Yair Golan when he meets him to explain this in light of the Goldstone Report which provides clear evidence of War Crimes

IDF officer: Testimonies of lax moral standards in Gaza are 'exaggerated' - Israel News | Haaretz Daily Newspaper

Extract-
A top Israel Defense Forces commander on Sunday defended the army's adherence to wartime moral standards, despite contrary testimonies describing lax rules of engagement in the Gaza Strip released last week by troops who served in Operation Cast Lead.

"The reports were exaggerated and any deviations from the IDF's moral standards will be dealt with," GOC Home Front Command Major General Yair Golan said during a panel discussion at the Institute of National Defense Research in Tel-Aviv.

Haaretz last week published an expose revealing soldiers' accounts of ethical violations in the Gaza offensive earlier this year.

Less than a month after the end of Operation Cast Lead, dozens of graduates of the Yitzhak Rabin pre-military preparatory program convened at Oranim Academic College in Tivon to testify to their experiences during the war.

Israeli forces killed Palestinian civilians under permissive rules of engagement and intentionally destroyed their property, according to the testimonies, which were given by combat pilots and infantry soldiers.

Their testimonies run counter to the IDF's claims that Israeli troops observed a high level of moral behavior during the operation.

Similar testimonies emerged over the weekend. Channel 10 broadcast a documentary on Saturday that included a security briefing by a company commander on the eve of the Gaza invasion.

"We're going to war," the documentary showed a commander telling his soldiers. "We're not doing routine security work or anything like that. I want aggressiveness - if there's someone suspicious on the upper floor of a house, we'll shell it. If we have suspicions about a house, we'll take it down."
 
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Analyzer

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Bullshatter should ask him for recommendations on how to provide leadership.

Because the bullShatter has none. PR stunts are not leadership.
 

Kev408

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You'd like Shatter to say to Livni what I'd like to say to you i.e. "f*ck off and stop being such a hate-filled arsehole."

But Minister Shatter and I are gentlemen so neither of us will.
 

brughahaha

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What he should say is " stop the brutal occupation and settlements and start obeying international law and withdraw to 1967 line"

But we know he won't as in his heart he supports and justifies every attrocity , human rights violation, illegal ccupation , settlement , torture and murder committed in the name of the fascist zionist dream
 

Rural

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I know that I have stuck my head in the sand for the past few years, but when did the departments of justice and defense get amalgamated.
 

timhorgan

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What he should say is " stop the brutal occupation and settlements and start obeying international law and withdraw to 1967 line"

But we know he won't as in his heart he supports and justifies every attrocity , human rights violation, illegal ccupation , settlement , torture and murder committed in the name of the fascist zionist dream
Yair Golan has been responsible for the bull-dozing of most of the Palestinian homes in recent years and the brutal eviction of Palestinian women and children.

This is the TERRORIST Shatter will be meeting in Northern Israel.

Welcome to ccp web site

Extract-
On November 28th Adnan Gheith, a member of the Al-Bustan Neighborhood Committee and a dignitary of Silwan, was served with a letter informing him that Yair Golan, the Israeli Home Front Commander, is intending to expel him from Jerusalem for a period of four months. The expulsion is to be executed based on an Administrative Decree – with no charges and no evidence – by power of the Emergency Defense Orders established under the British Mandate. Gheith’s lawyer was informed that the expulsion is intended to curb Gheith’s political activity, since the security apparatus considers him to be a central instigator of unrest in Silwan......

In view of the brutal tactics of repression employed by police against the community in the service of the Elad organization and the Silwan settlers, it is clear that Adnan Gheith’s expulsion constitutes an experimental exercise of power on part of the Israeli Police, the Shin Bet and the Israeli Army, intended to prepare the ground for massive home demolitions in the al-Bustan neighborhood and for a deepening Jewish settlement in Silwan.
Should an Irish Government minister shake the hand of this Israeli TERRORIST who has terrorised countless Palestinian women and children.
 
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Windowshopper

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I know that I have stuck my head in the sand for the past few years, but when did the departments of justice and defense get amalgamated.
They didn't. Shatter is holding both portfolios simultaneously.
 

timhorgan

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Well obviously his 1st loyalty will be to his tribe. All very well where Irish and Israeli interests coincide but if they were to conflict.
He would ask for an adjournment of the debate -:lol:

Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs - 08/Oct/2009 Questions

Deputy Alan Shatter: The final matter I want to raise, which I had started before Senator Norris got unduly excited, is that the UN Human Rights Council passed a motion——

Senator David Norris: Deputy Shatter does not unduly excite me.

(Interruptions).

Deputy Alan Shatter: It is a great relief to hear that; the feeling is mutual. In the ninth special session of the UN Human Rights Council, a motion was passed on 12 January which set out the council’s views on events happening in Gaza at the time. A paragraph in the motion established Colonel Travers’s committee. As a very minimum, I would have thought that part of the background information — the full text of the motion- would be furnished to members of the committee.

Senator Mark Daly: Can I make a point——

Chairman: I propose to proceed——

Deputy Alan Shatter: I am sorry if I am upsetting members but I am merely making the point that the motion should be circulated to members of the committee.

Senator Mark Daly: I asked Colonel Travers to attend the committee. I did not ask him to bring any other documentation.

Deputy Alan Shatter: Did Senator Daly read the report?

Senator Mark Daly: I read the report. It was tedious reading.

Deputy Alan Shatter: Did the Senator read the protocol?
 
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