Aye, the civil rights movement was the catalyst for change all right.. but what change the the Bloody Sunday Civil Rights march bring ?[/quote:w8dnmpnc]El Matador said:I think you'll find that the civil rights movement was the catalyst for change, with the new dispensation delivering the fall of Stormont and providing powersharing through the Sunningdale Agreement (which the provos and the Paisleyites were opposed to at the time- even then they had a lot in common)rockofcashel said:[quote="El Matador":w8dnmpnc]Compare and contrast the position of a working class Republican Catholic in 1994 and a Republican working class Catholic in 1968rockofcashel said:not as bad as it was while the PIRA campaign was ongoing.badinage said:Have you any idea what ni was like before the troubles?st333ve said:[quote="dubsthcentralboy":w8dnmpnc]For decades Sinn Féin supported a murderour campaign by the self-styled Irish Repubican Army (IRA) which resulted in the death of hundreds of civilians. It was, according to SF lore, part of the struggle for the freedom of Ireland.
Now, after 1,000s of lives lost what's been achieved?
A United Ireland, no they've decided to let that be,
An end to British occupation of a part of Ireland, ignored that too,
British soldiers in Ireland, they're still here
A British police force? - Well, SF administer it now...
A British parliament in Stormont, well, they're involved in administering that too.
What did the 'armed struggle' achieve? Why were Sinn Féin opposed to running British institutions in Ireland for decades but now they're happy to do so?
I believe you'll see a discernible difference
While you might argue that this was not directly related to the IRA campaign (i.e. no politician is going to admit to changing policy directly as a result of pressure brought about by an armed campaign), there is no doubt that the IRA campaign sped up the pace of change in social policy in the 6 counties. You could even posit the collapsing of the Unionist dominated Stormont regime post 1968-72
I don't really understand the point you're trying to make. Am I to assume from your dismissal of the impact of the Civil Rights Movement that you accept that the provisional movement didn't think it was worthwhile?[/quote:w8dnmpnc]
where did I dismiss the Civil Rights movement ?
I said straight up, it was a catalyst.. which it was. However, it achieved practically nothing substantial beyond politicising the young people of the Catholic communities in the 6 counties, and knocked heads at places like Burntollet. Then it ended up causing innocent people to be gunned down in Derry.
After that, the IRA campaign wrung whatever changes for the Catholic community that was wrung from the British.
You can pontificate all you like, and slap yourself on the back all you like.. but Mao's assertion that power comes from the barrel of a gun is exactly how the British Government always dealt with its colonies. (bar Hong Kong, and they'll admit to beign pissed off they were stupid enough to sign a lease on that)