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What do people believe the end game to be?


Disillusioned democrat

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 16, 2010
Messages
15,617
This site is full of threads and posters with completely diverging opinions and agendas, as you would expect, but the reality is that our deal with the Troika is fast approaching it's end, Euro and global growth is finding it hard to get out of the traps, we're still over-budget on current expenditure and our public sector is (maybe rightly) refusing to bend over and take pay cuts.

Most people, and especially our very blinkered politicians who claim not to have seen this coming, don't seem to be able to look beyond a strategy completely dependent on either the good graces (more lending) or the good fortune (growth) of other nations and we don't seem to have our OWN plan for our OWN situation - we're like a cork bobbing in the current - completely out of our own control and at the mercy of our surroundings.

Is there any example of a country coming back from this level of debt under its own steam, or are we basically heading towards a far more unpleasant future? If so, what do people predict this future will look like? I'm not talking about 2 - 4 years down the road with little skirmishes still occurring in the Dail between pseudo-left and pseudo-right (but all populist) parties taking turns pretending to be in charge, I'm talking about when the piper calls looking for payment.
 

Ribeye

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 12, 2011
Messages
26,306
You are correct in your assumption, no country in human history has ever come back from where we are without defaulting, never,

As to the future, I am certain the Europe is going to war,

Id bet my life on that,

It's so obvious,
 

Disillusioned democrat

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 16, 2010
Messages
15,617
Well there is my good mood gone for the day!
Sorry about that, but my experience is that outcomes are far worse if people ignore the reality and make plans and provisions based on hope and optimism...it's the same at work and drive me mad when sales people make forecasts and targets that are unachievable and then spend 9 months of the year making excuses while the rest of the business tries to cut costs.

We (people at large, but particularly our leaders, seem to be ignoring reality and planning based on growth, inflation, recovery as opposed to recognizing that perhaps austerity is the new "normal" and that we need to define new societal norms to accommodate it.
 

Catalpast

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 17, 2012
Messages
26,196
This site is full of threads and posters with completely diverging opinions and agendas, as you would expect, but the reality is that our deal with the Troika is fast approaching it's end, Euro and global growth is finding it hard to get out of the traps, we're still over-budget on current expenditure and our public sector is (maybe rightly) refusing to bend over and take pay cuts.

Most people, and especially our very blinkered politicians who claim not to have seen this coming, don't seem to be able to look beyond a strategy completely dependent on either the good graces (more lending) or the good fortune (growth) of other nations and we don't seem to have our OWN plan for our OWN situation - we're like a cork bobbing in the current - completely out of our own control and at the mercy of our surroundings.

Is there any example of a country coming back from this level of debt under its own steam, or are we basically heading towards a far more unpleasant future? If so, what do people predict this future will look like? I'm not talking about 2 - 4 years down the road with little skirmishes still occurring in the Dail between pseudo-left and pseudo-right (but all populist) parties taking turns pretending to be in charge, I'm talking about when the piper calls looking for payment.
Our Debt is staggering and still growing

The whole 'Recovery' is based on the economies of other States growing at healthy rates of improvement

- for decades to come...

If that does not happen

- then its curtains for us...:?

Realistically if we are still part of the EZ then we will need serious Debt renegotiation

- if they cant or wont do it

- then we will DEFAULT

- maybe not today...maybe not tomorrow...but....
 

Disillusioned democrat

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 16, 2010
Messages
15,617
You are correct in your assumption, no country in human history has ever come back from where we are without defaulting, never,

As to the future, I am certain the Europe is going to war,

Id bet my life on that,

It's so obvious,
I've heard people say that also, but I think our problem isn't nation states having a go at each other, I think we're fundamentally at a cross roads where we have to re-assess the balance between finance and nation. That Europe is tearing itself apart because 1% of the population holds so much government debt that they pretty much own countries....it's not sustainable.
 

shiel

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 14, 2011
Messages
16,887
This site is full of threads and posters with completely diverging opinions and agendas, as you would expect, but the reality is that our deal with the Troika is fast approaching it's end, Euro and global growth is finding it hard to get out of the traps, we're still over-budget on current expenditure and our public sector is (maybe rightly) refusing to bend over and take pay cuts.

Most people, and especially our very blinkered politicians who claim not to have seen this coming, don't seem to be able to look beyond a strategy completely dependent on either the good graces (more lending) or the good fortune (growth) of other nations and we don't seem to have our OWN plan for our OWN situation - we're like a cork bobbing in the current - completely out of our own control and at the mercy of our surroundings.

Is there any example of a country coming back from this level of debt under its own steam, or are we basically heading towards a far more unpleasant future? If so, what do people predict this future will look like? I'm not talking about 2 - 4 years down the road with little skirmishes still occurring in the Dail between pseudo-left and pseudo-right (but all populist) parties taking turns pretending to be in charge, I'm talking about when the piper calls looking for payment.
All of us, especially our media, should have been asking those questions ten or more years ago when the harm was being done.

Now we are depending on the foreigner to keep the holes in the wall open.

But back then the mantra from the lords and masters and their spin doctors was that whingers should shut up, suck it up or commit suicide.

The same lords and masters and their spin doctors are now complaining about the consequences because the piper [three of them] has already called looking for payment.
 

jman0war

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 13, 2008
Messages
1,759
The end-game is the end of the "social safety net".
We can't afford it.
 

carlovian

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
5,068
You are correct in your assumption, no country in human history has ever come back from where we are without defaulting, never,

As to the future, I am certain the Europe is going to war,

Id bet my life on that,

It's so obvious,
Any particular opponent ?

Always wanted a crack at the Australians.
 

Pat Gill

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 16, 2011
Messages
5,301
Website
www.energyco-ops.ie
Twitter
Pat_Gill
The global financial system has entered uncharted waters, since its inception, fractional reserve banking has depended on the fact that real wealth is created by applying capital to the extraction of natural resources, whether food, energy or other commodities.

Sometime during the 1980's the financial system began to believe that it could create wealth of itself, we now have the result of that failed experiment.

Getting back to tried and trusted methods of creating wealth is the only way forward along with a small amount of planned disconnection from global systems in favour of a little more self sufficiency, which means focusing more effort on the domestic economy, particularly the non services sectors such as food.
 

niall78

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 10, 2010
Messages
11,285
The end-game is the end of the "social safety net".
We can't afford it.
You think a large percentage of the population will stand for that? Are you willing to fight a civil war with your fellow country people to ensure the end of the "social safety net"?

I'm more than willing to help destroy any so called country that wants to return Ireland to the nineteenth century.

Disillusioned democrat is correct - we need to completely rebuild our society into one that functions for the citizens and not a few vested interests here and abroad. It's only a pity we didn't start this process four years ago but it is never too late to start a good and necessary job.
 

Ribeye

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 12, 2011
Messages
26,306
I've heard people say that also, but I think our problem isn't nation states having a go at each other, I think we're fundamentally at a cross roads where we have to re-assess the balance between finance and nation. That Europe is tearing itself apart because 1% of the population holds so much government debt that they pretty much own countries....it's not sustainable.
Wars are always about money and debt, this time is no different,

Most europeans don't believe a war is even possible, "soldiers and tanks on the streets, in Europe, don't be so silly"

Yeah, nobody has ever thought that before, like in 1938 perhaps,

The difference this time is the Internet, and a lot of people who know who the real enemy is,

Now, have those nerds figured out to 3D print me a sniper rifle yet?
 

Pissyknickers

Active member
Joined
Oct 1, 2012
Messages
232
This phase, a huge experiment in money printing, could stagger on for quite some years before collapsing in a heap, my guess 2019 is going to be the year, ten years after the experiment started.
 

Moneygod

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 9, 2013
Messages
399
Sorry about that, but my experience is that outcomes are far worse if people ignore the reality and make plans and provisions based on hope and optimism...it's the same at work and drive me mad when sales people make forecasts and targets that are unachievable and then spend 9 months of the year making excuses while the rest of the business tries to cut costs.

We (people at large, but particularly our leaders, seem to be ignoring reality and planning based on growth, inflation, recovery as opposed to recognizing that perhaps austerity is the new "normal" and that we need to define new societal norms to accommodate it.
Austerity is the new normal and rightfully so. It should never be the case that the state and by consequence its finances be let have anything other than austere as its target. Budgetary control is both the carrot and the stick, depending on your mentality. The only area to be ring fenced is the defenceless, the young, the mentally disabled etc.

Inside the next three years those cretins in daileireann will come and relieve your deposits. So if your planning for the future , don't keep over €90,000 in your deposit account, if your lucky enough to have amassed that amount.:cry:
 

lies

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
2,918
Twitter
yes
You are correct in your assumption, no country in human history has ever come back from where we are without defaulting, never,

As to the future, I am certain the Europe is going to war,

Id bet my life on that,

It's so obvious,
How FAR into the future?

I'm interested in this bet of yours.
 

Ribeye

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 12, 2011
Messages
26,306
Any particular opponent ?

Always wanted a crack at the Australians.
No, no, not against someone else,

Europe is going to war,

with itself,

as per usual,
 

hiding behind a poster

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 8, 2005
Messages
48,236
This site is full of threads and posters with completely diverging opinions and agendas, as you would expect, but the reality is that our deal with the Troika is fast approaching it's end, Euro and global growth is finding it hard to get out of the traps, we're still over-budget on current expenditure and our public sector is (maybe rightly) refusing to bend over and take pay cuts.

Most people, and especially our very blinkered politicians who claim not to have seen this coming, don't seem to be able to look beyond a strategy completely dependent on either the good graces (more lending) or the good fortune (growth) of other nations and we don't seem to have our OWN plan for our OWN situation - we're like a cork bobbing in the current - completely out of our own control and at the mercy of our surroundings.

Is there any example of a country coming back from this level of debt under its own steam, or are we basically heading towards a far more unpleasant future? If so, what do people predict this future will look like? I'm not talking about 2 - 4 years down the road with little skirmishes still occurring in the Dail between pseudo-left and pseudo-right (but all populist) parties taking turns pretending to be in charge, I'm talking about when the piper calls looking for payment.
Well firstly yes, there is an example of a country coming back from this level of debt under its own steam - Ireland. We did it in the 1990s. Secondly, its worth noting that most of the predictions from the doom-porn merchants on this site have turned out to be wrong, so if they flood this thread with further confident assertions that The End Is Nigh, their claims should be viewed with that in mind.
 
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