What do people in the ROI generally think of Churchill?

GDPR

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What do people in the ROI generally think about him? The only people I have discussed him with from here have yourself and rashers on the net as well as a retired Officier of the ROI Defense Force who has given my better half and I a lot of laughs and giggles on the subject; this is the thing about Churchill that he was so pompously ridiculous in his evil a lot of the time that it is hard not to find him humorous.

Yes I firmly believe that Hitlerite regime had to be crushed but the way he went about was at times nothing more than satanic. If it had not been for World War II he would remembered in British history for his murder of Welsh miners and his drunken arrogance in World I which led to the deaths of multiudes of Commonwealth soldiers.
 


jmcc

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He did appreciate the importance of cryptography and intelligence in a way that Hitler and the Japanese did not. Bletchley and the cryppies there owed a lot to Churchill. Militarily, he was more of a danger to his own side at times but as a manager, especially in dealing with the politics of Allied command in WW2, he was very good. But he was a major liability for the British with the War Of Independence. He was a fairly complex character from a psychological aspect. (Read a few biographies on him and it seemed that he never got over his childhood and school days.)
 

gerhard dengler

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Churchill was no friend of Ireland or the Irish.

That's about as charitable as I can be as regards the man.
 

EoinMag

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He was a murdering racist scumbag.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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One of those fascinating characters moulded by history as much as he was aware that history is created by its authors.

Quite unpleasant in some ways but a very complex being. I know he went to Eton rather unspectacularly, only winning one prize for Latin I think and then when he was a subaltern in the winding down of the Raj in India he felt fairly left out of some of the highflown conversation among the other officers of his regiment who had been to Oxford and Cambridge so sent off for a container load of books from home and essentially gave himself an education as a late flowering autodidact.

That is the part that interests me- he fairly plundered the greats and the more obscure greats all his political life thereafter for his speeches. Perhaps the greatest act of autodidacticism I can recall.
 

GDPR

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Churchill was no friend of Ireland or the Irish.

That's about as charitable as I can be as regards the man.
Im not sure about that. He had a definite of Ulster and particularly of the Prods but I did have a genuine affection for the South which he spent a good deal of time in growing up. He also supported Home Rule strongly- he had basically the Blue Shirt dream of a 32 county self governing Ireland as part of the British Empire. His father on the other hand who he despised is to blame in a significant part for him turning out such a psycho is one of the people principally responsible for the mess Northern Ireland is in today- he was a real piece of work.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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Nothing wrong with his eye on other characters as well in terms of judgement. Despised De Valera and admired Michael Collins.

I can't see much wrong with that assessment of character.
 

Irish-Rationalist

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He enjoyed a quality cigar.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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I think he may have preferred champagne with breakfast. Brandy would be a touch gauche.

Bucks fizz goes very well with scrambled egg and poached salmon but I can't imagine brandy at breakfast unless it was destined for the coffee and that would be a regrettable fate for a decent brandy in my humble opinion.
 

GDPR

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Nothing wrong with his eye on other characters as well in terms of judgement. Despised De Valera and admired Michael Collins.

I can't see much wrong with that assessment of character.
Now this opens an interesting kettle fish; there does seem to be big dividing line between those who admire De Valera more and those who admire Collins more.

We have a wonderful portrait of De Valera painted by my sister in law hanging in our house- my better half greatly admires him, I personally see him as a flawed but deeply patriotic (and love covers a multitude of sins) genius. Collins on the hand I regard as sexually perverted Cork version of Johnny Adair who would have been largely unknown if he wasnt lucky enough for a political conflict to have come along to make his psychopathy useful.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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Now this opens an interesting kettle fish; there does seem to be big dividing line between those who admire De Valera more and those who admire Collins more.

We have a wonderful portrait of De Valera painted by my sister in law hanging in our house- my better half greatly admires him, I personally see him as a flawed but deeply patriotic (and love covers a multitude of sins) genius. Collins on the hand I regard as sexually perverted Cork version of Johnny Adair who would have been largely unknown if he wasnt lucky enough for a political conflict to have come along to make his psychopathy useful.
Collins and Churchill met when the latter gave a dinner party for him during the Treaty negotiations. There was an interesting exchange when Collins pulled out one of the Wanted posters featuring himself which had been posted up around Dublin offering a £50 reward for information leading to the capture of one Michael Collins.

Churchill begged to be excused and rooted about in a bureau, returning with a Wanted poster the Boers had posted around in South Africa for the recapture of Winston Churchill offering a reward of £5.

There were some lighthearted jokes about the effect of inflation.

When Churchill heard of the death of Collins he wrote a personal letter to Collins' family expressing regret and saying Ireland had 'lost a great leader'.

Churchill's dislike of De Valera was well known. My theory is that Churchill knew De Valera was a double agent- Churchill in line with the officer class of the time had a deep dislike of spies and agents. A gentleman could like and admire an enemy officer but not a spy.

It would explain also De Valera's rather remarkable escape from a supposed high security prison. But that is my theory and for another day.
 

GDPR

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No later he was angry with De Valera for destroying his dream of an Ireland as a genuine part of the British part of the British Empire but he was fascinated by him and respected him, Collins he got on with because they both had incredibly dark souls: De Valera of course despised Churchill.
 

blinding

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He kinda got lucky (circumstances and all that dear girls/boys) in the way he became Prime Minister .

Lucky that the Russians (Russian Blood) and American money beat de Germans .

Was it him that said the Unionists liked the Half Crown and castigated many of them for staying safe and secure in Northern Ireland during WW II .

Had he been born an Irish Republican he could have been a pretty ruthless freedom fighter/terrorist .
 

GDPR

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When Churchill heard of the death of Collins he wrote a personal letter to Collins' family expressing regret and saying Ireland had 'lost a great leader'.
They were cut from the same fabric so to speak. Look Lumpy unlike you I have known Paramilitaries, I was bounced on their knees as a little girl, Ireland gained immensely when the bullet sent Collins to his judgement. Or is it that you love him because he despised Catholicism?
 


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