What do you do when an apology feels more like just a PR stunt?

Baron von Biffo

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This is what the Dáil looked like during the apology and as far as I can make out there are only two female TDs in the chamber.

This is what Vicky Phelan and all the other women were looking at from the gallery.

Dail.gif
Why does it matter how many female TDs there are?

And for the record there's at least 5 and possibly 6 female TDs in that pic.

Female TDs.png
 
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Rural

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Why does it matter how many female TDs there are?

And for the record there's at least 5 and possibly 6 female TDs in that pic.

I see three, I have just noticed MMO'C at the front, there's a woman in a pink suit and one in a light blue suit.

Please enlighten me about the other two.

And if you think that even five is good enough for this, think again.
 

Baron von Biffo

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I see three, I have just noticed MMO'C at the front, there's a woman in a pink suit and one in a light blue suit.

Please enlighten me about the other two.
Being colour blind I have no idea who you're referring to but I've circled them in the picture.

And if you think that even five is good enough for this, think again.
Yesterday you were castigating posters for making threads 'men v women' but today you're complaining that 1/3 of the TDs shown in a photo of part of the chamber isn't 'good enough'.
 

Rural

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Being colour blind I have no idea who you're referring to but I've circled them in the picture.



Yesterday you were castigating posters for making threads 'men v women' but today you're complaining that 1/3 of the TDs shown in a photo of part of the chamber isn't 'good enough'.

You really have a problem with comprehension. Or, you purposefully pick me up wrong all the time.

Anyway, it's your problem, not mine.
 

Baron von Biffo

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You really have a problem with comprehension. Or, you purposefully pick me up wrong all the time.

Anyway, it's your problem, not mine.
What did I get wrong? Initially you were complaining that there were only 2 women TDs in the pic. Then you upped that to 3. I said I see at least 5 and possibly 6 and I ringed them in the photo.

Why is this a problem for you.

And they say we men can't acknowledge when we get something wrong.
 

Rural

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What did I get wrong? Initially you were complaining that there were only 2 women TDs in the pic. Then you upped that to 3. I said I see at least 5 and possibly 6 and I ringed them in the photo.

Why is this a problem for you.

And they say we men can't acknowledge when we get something wrong.


You yourself have a problem with quotas, I highlight where quotas do not work in favour of the people they are supposed to represent and you give it to me in the nec k. It's the same with Brian Crowley, he wouldn't have got so many votes if he wasn't in wheelchair, yet he never said or did anything for others with disabilities.

You, my dear man, are a cranky auld fukk.

Anyway, I'd like to see if this apology will stop court challenges against these women.
 
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Baron von Biffo

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You yourself have a problem with quotas, I highlight where quotas do not work in favour of the people they are supposed to represent and you give it to me in the neck.
You highlighted nothing except perhaps that you have a difficulty telling men from women.

And I didn't 'give it to you in the neck', I asked a perfectly civil question and pointed out your mistake (with proof).

You, my dear man, are a cranky auld fukk.

[...]
True enough. Then again you're arrogant, intolerant and very, very angry.

Wouldn't the world be very boring if we were all the same?
 

Rural

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You highlighted nothing except perhaps that you have a difficulty telling men from women.

And I didn't 'give it to you in the neck', I asked a perfectly civil question and pointed out your mistake (with proof).



True enough. Then again you're arrogant, intolerant and very, very angry.

Wouldn't the world be very boring if we were all the same?
Offence is always your defence, I am not angry, what I'm trying to do is debate and you just pick on paltry little nothings to argue.

Even 6 women in the Dáil for that apology is pathetic, the Dáil should have been packed, because the gallery was.

Keep making excuses though, that's your thang.
 

Baron von Biffo

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Offence is always your defence,
Far from taking offence at you calling me a cranky old f*@k, I agreed with you.

I am not angry, what I'm trying to do is debate and you just pick on paltry little nothings to argue.
If it's a paltry little nothing then it's your paltry little nothing. You decided to heave your toys out of the pram because you thought there were only 2 female TDs in a picture of half the chamber. All I did was say I could see 5 or six.

Instead of admitting you made a mistake you had a bit of a rant at me about comprehension.

Even 6 women in the Dáil for that apology is pathetic, the Dáil should have been packed, because the gallery was.
Ok, you say you want to debate, tell us then why you believe that 6 women in half the Dail chamber is pathetic?

Make your case and if someone disagrees don't launch into a stream of abuse but discuss it.

Keep making excuses though, that's your thang.
What excuse did I make?
 

Rural

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Far from taking offence at you calling me a cranky old f*@k, I agreed with you.



If it's a paltry little nothing then it's your paltry little nothing. You decided to heave your toys out of the pram because you thought there were only 2 female TDs in a picture of half the chamber. All I did was say I could see 5 or six.

Instead of admitting you made a mistake you had a bit of a rant at me about comprehension.



Ok, you say you want to debate, tell us then why you believe that 6 women in half the Dail chamber is pathetic?

Make your case and if someone disagrees don't launch into a stream of abuse but discuss it.



What excuse did I make?

The Dáil (in my humble opinion) should have been as packed as the gallery, out of respect to the women there.

There are more than 6 female TDs (I don't know how many exactly), every single one of them should have been there, out of respect for the women in the gallery.

I don't know if you get where I'm coming from, but my point initially (OK I got the numbers wrong) was the amount of female TDs overall and the tiny amount that turned up for the apology. Who are they representing? Not other women and that's for sure.

I am of course including all female TDs, from all parties here.
 

Baron von Biffo

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The Dáil (in my humble opinion) should have been as packed as the gallery, out of respect to the women there.
No doubt it will shock you to learn that my opinion is different. :)

I view TDs as being there to govern the country, not to make up a sort of guard of honour for whatever group happens to be in the public gallery.

There are more than 6 female TDs (I don't know how many exactly), every single one of them should have been there, out of respect for the women in the gallery.

I don't know if you get where I'm coming from, but my point initially (OK I got the numbers wrong) was the amount of female TDs overall and the tiny amount that turned up for the apology. Who are they representing? Not other women and that's for sure.

I am of course including all female TDs, from all parties here.
There are, I think, 34 female TDs now that Gromit has left to add another pension to her growing collection. Your photo appears to show 6 of the 18 deputies present in that half of the chamber are women.

It may be that there's a greater number of members on the opposition benches as the cynical nature of politics is such that they'd have more to gain by being there to 'support the victims'.

To my mind it would be a good thing if all TDs, including the women, viewed their role as representing us all, and not just women.

It would even be a good thing if some Dail time was given over to mens issues. For example you'll not see a scandal surrounding problems with a screening programme for any of the male cancers because there aren't any such programmes.

As you mentioned in an earlier post, I'm an opponent of quotas. I preferred it when we had free elections. Favouring one group of citizens over another doesn't accord with my view of how a democratic republic ought to be governed.

Apart from the inequality involved it gives rise to the belief which you hint at above, that the beneficiaries of the quotas shouldn't represent all citizens but confine themselves to catering to the favoured group they're drawn from.

Another obvious objection is that quotas are for the incompetent. The last thing we need is to have a policy to lower the standard of our parliamentarians.
 

Rural

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No doubt it will shock you to learn that my opinion is different. :)

I view TDs as being there to govern the country, not to make up a sort of guard of honour for whatever group happens to be in the public gallery.



There are, I think, 34 female TDs now that Gromit has left to add another pension to her growing collection. Your photo appears to show 6 of the 18 deputies present in that half of the chamber are women.

It may be that there's a greater number of members on the opposition benches as the cynical nature of politics is such that they'd have more to gain by being there to 'support the victims'.

To my mind it would be a good thing if all TDs, including the women, viewed their role as representing us all, and not just women.

It would even be a good thing if some Dail time was given over to mens issues. For example you'll not see a scandal surrounding problems with a screening programme for any of the male cancers because there aren't any such programmes.

As you mentioned in an earlier post, I'm an opponent of quotas. I preferred it when we had free elections. Favouring one group of citizens over another doesn't accord with my view of how a democratic republic ought to be governed.

Apart from the inequality involved it gives rise to the belief which you hint at above, that the beneficiaries of the quotas shouldn't represent all citizens but confine themselves to catering to the favoured group they're drawn from.

Another obvious objection is that quotas are for the incompetent. The last thing we need is to have a policy to lower the standard of our parliamentarians.

You see? We agree. Quotas are a rotten idea, because who are they supposed to represent? A TD should represent everyone, no matter what their sex. We should also be presented with the very best at elections, no matter what their sex, but we are not (sadly).

We also agree on screening programmes for men or even adverts reminding men about their health and what to watch out for.

Although, men might be better off without the kind of "screening" that women got, a lot of women were sold a terminal dummy and that's for sure.

It's late here, g'night.
 

Disillusioned democrat

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Well I suppose the fact that he wasn't the main author of the debacle might have something to do with it. You having this constant bee in your bonnet about everything FG says or does doesn't oblige the media to share your view, and this is something you seem to be having difficulty with.
Hello HBAP - I've been keeping an eye on this thread to see where you went after this, seeing as quite clearly Varadkar was front and center in this debacle as Minister for Health who enabled non-disclosure and as Taoiseach when the excrement hit the fan.

Varadkar's "apology" was a joke - and an insult - but the media seem to have bought it hook, line and sinker.
 

ruman

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Its disgusting of Varadkar to effectively apologise on all our behalfs when it was he who bears responsibility.

We should of course not forget that FF abstained and allowed the amended legislation that removed mandatory disclosure to pass.

Rather than a state apology an apology from FF and FG should have been made. Leo, Holohan and failed former HSE DG Tony O'Brien made a big song and dance about the disastrous voluntary open disclosure policy at the time. O'Brien even squandered taxpayers money making a video for staff boasting about it!

What sort of useless media do we have when this isnt pointed out ?
What sort of opppsition do we have when they fail to call out Leo?
 

yosef shompeter

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This is what the Dáil looked like during the apology and as far as I can make out there are only two female TDs in the chamber.

This is what Vicky Phelan and all the other women were looking at from the gallery.

Dail.gif
Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiishhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh !

You'll wake them up!
 


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