What FG Should Do Now

JCR

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Seeing as the only opposition party people think will support the budget because of the urgency in having it past I name FG in the title. It could apply also to Labour and maybe to SF depending on numbers but seeing as SF in times of turmoil seem to be falling back to fond memories of the good old days of enjoying a good old street brawl they can be ruled out for now (yet again).

So anyway FF need help passing the budget. Thats fine on these conditions -

FG have immediate input into the shape of the team dealing with the IMF negotiations - FG nominated people such as Sommerville Matthews (Bruton himself is capable of being as a public representative, maybe the only one in the whole Dail tragically enough) etc or anyone of that calibre who actually know what they are talking about and can put it to the IMF delegation that Ireland will default on the basis of the interest rates suggested. Basically this is - yes we will help pass this years budget (another budget will be needed in spring, this budget is a stop gap obviously) but only on these terms. FG need to get the agreements and numbers done over the next 24 hours from these people and this is the only circumstance in which they should consider passing the budget.

No budget should be passed with the kind of interest rates suggested in the IMF/EU "bailout" and no one should support a government willing to impose an even bigger debt making the default even more inevitable but with worse consequences. IF FF do not accept those terms they would be not just economic traitors but traitors full stop. All of this might only be a case of delaying a default anyway but the country needs some one else in there at the negotiations now and this seems to be the only way to do it.
 


TonyBird

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They should put up or shut up .
As should Labour and all so called 'independents' and 'rebels'. Bring down FF or support them. No half measures please . No clouding the issues . I dont believe FG have a mandate to meddle .
 

Desperate Dan

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After today and Kenny after hiding for the last few days he should go back to where people know him roll up his sleeves and dig some turf its going to be a harsh winter.
 

JCR

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They should put up or shut up .
As should Labour and all so called 'independents' and 'rebels'. Bring down FF or support them. No half measures please . No clouding the issues . I dont believe FG have a mandate to meddle .
Anyone in the Dail who can 'meddle' has a responisibility to 'meddle'. First things first, get a team in there who can negotiate the interest rates properly otherwise we press the red button. That day is possibly coming anyway but if can keep the rates down right now we can examine an orderly default while examining the options available to us. It is FF who now need to put up or shut up, they and their nominated team do not have a mandate to negotiate this deal.
 

newell666

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FG seem to be inept. Maybe an SF/Lab coalition might bemore likely/desirably?
 

newell666

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Seeing as the only opposition party people think will support the budget because of the urgency in having it past I name FG in the title. It could apply also to Labour and maybe to SF depending on numbers but seeing as SF in times of turmoil seem to be falling back to fond memories of the good old days of enjoying a good old street brawl they can be ruled out for now (yet again).

So anyway FF need help passing the budget. Thats fine on these conditions -

FG have immediate input into the shape of the team dealing with the IMF negotiations - FG nominated people such as Sommerville Matthews (Bruton himself is capable of being as a public representative, maybe the only one in the whole Dail tragically enough) etc or anyone of that calibre who actually know what they are talking about and can put it to the IMF delegation that Ireland will default on the basis of the interest rates suggested. Basically this is - yes we will help pass this years budget (another budget will be needed in spring, this budget is a stop gap obviously) but only on these terms. FG need to get the agreements and numbers done over the next 24 hours from these people and this is the only circumstance in which they should consider passing the budget.

No budget should be passed with the kind of interest rates suggested in the IMF/EU "bailout" and no one should support a government willing to impose an even bigger debt making the default even more inevitable but with worse consequences. IF FF do not accept those terms they would be not just economic traitors but traitors full stop. All of this might only be a case of delaying a default anyway but the country needs some one else in there at the negotiations now and this seems to be the only way to do it.
I certainly dont want this wishy washy blueshirty brutonishy ************************ite stuff. it will not happen. fu$*%&*%$negotiations - this is war.
 

JCR

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FG seem to be inept. Maybe an SF/Lab coalition might bemore likely/desirably?
And what makes you think that SF/Labour are capable? There is no reason to suggest that at all. Kenny is not a good leader but I'm not advocating endorsing Kenny, I'm advocating the terms FG should have for supporting the budget. I'm not advocating FG negotiate the terms if you read my post I'm advocating FG demand a proper negotiating team in return for supporting the budget but seeing as you mention it I dont think anyone sane who knows what they are talking about would advocate a single member of SF to be on that team, sorry but that is just absurd.
 

dresden8

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As FF would do.

Hammer the bastards every step of the way for the next eternity.

"You destroyed the Republic and brought in the IMF" would be a good and constant narrative.
 

ocoonassa

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Disband immediately. Why didn't they warn anybody what was happening to the economy? That was their job and they messed it up spectacularly, they'll never be forgiven for that except by idiots.
 

EUrJokingMeRight

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Sep 28, 2009
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FG should realise they are flanked on both sides by reality.
They should face up to their responisbilities to the Irish people, not the IM/FF

use every trick to bring down this government.

Do NOT support this budget.

Give Cowen the Cyanide pill option if he doesnt want to face the electorate.
 

JCR

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I certainly dont want this wishy washy blueshirty brutonishy ************************ite stuff. it will not happen. fu$*%&*%$negotiations - this is war.
I see, well walk around the quays with property deal gone wrong Jim Corr so seeing as you have no ideas or solutions to the current crisis worth talking about.
 

vanla sighs

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FG should not support the budget, they should use every measure at their disposal to force this government to go NOW. Hold an immediate election. They should default on the banks debt. Possibly offer the irish people a referendum on the bailout, as Varadkar said last night on Primetime.
 

JCR

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FG should realise they are flanked on both sides by reality.
They should face up to their responisbilities to the Irish people, not the IM/FF

use every trick to bring down this government.

Do NOT support this budget.

Give Cowen the Cyanide pill option if he doesnt want to face the electorate.
The responsible thing to do now is try to get those crazy interest payments down to a managable level while the country buys time to consider an orderly default if that is what appears to be the best thing to do after a general election, the government is going anyway but we need a proper team to negotiate the interest rates on the loan. This is the immediate responsibility of anyone elected as a public representative. Its not a time for knee jerks and this is the reality its not about how much people dislike our polticians at this time. The reality is a GE will leave us with FG/Labour anyway.
 

Desperate Dan

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FG seem to be inept. Maybe an SF/Lab coalition might bemore likely/desirably?
Where are they going to hold their guns PSF/PIRA and OIRA/OSF WP/DL LP
It would be interesting times in the Dail bar.:cool::cool:
 

Padraigin

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Use the Constition - Demand a referendum

Time to get back to basics. Refresh your memory about the Irish Constitution:

Article 5
Ireland is a sovereign, independent, democratic state.

Article 6
All powers of government, legislative, executive and judicial, derive, under God, from the people, whose right it is to designate the rulers of the State and, in final appeal, to decide all questions of national policy, according to the requirements of the common good.

Reference of Bills to the People
Article 27
This Article applies to any Bill, other than a Bill expressed to be a Bill containing a proposal for the amendment of this Constitution, which shall have been deemed, by virtue of Article 23 hereof, to have been passed by both Houses of the Oireachtas.
1. A majority of the members of Seanad Éireann and not less than one-third of the members of Dáil Éireann may by a joint petition addressed to the President by them under this Article request the President to decline to sign and promulgate as a law any Bill to which this article applies on the ground that the Bill contains a proposal of such national importance that the will of the people thereon ought to be ascertained.
2. Every such petition shall be in writing and shall be signed by the petitioners whose signatures shall be verified in the manner prescribed by law.
3. Every such petition shall contain a statement of the particular ground or grounds on which the request is based, and shall be presented to the President not later than four days after the date on which the Bill shall have been deemed to have been passed by both Houses of the Oireachtas.


Comment: Use the Constitution. Make the decision to solve this mess by either (1) refusing the IMF "help" (control) or (2) accepting the IMF "help" (long term exploitation by the imperial EU) a matter to be decided by the Irish people themselves. The politicians have betrayed everybody and every foundational principle of the Irish Republic, but DeValera left you a Constitution. Use it.

All it takes to set this in motion is a majority vote by the Seanad and one-third of the Dail. Those votes are likely there. Making this a matter for referendum takes fewer votes than a no-confidence vote. Make this happen and slam on the brakes.

What the current government is proposing is absolutely "a proposal of such national importance that the will of the people thereon ought to be ascertained."
 


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