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What happened to Southern Unionists after partition?


Drogheda445

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Prior to the partition of Ireland in 1922 most unionists were concentrated in what would become Northern Ireland. There were however a small but vocal group of unionists in the remaining 26 counties that would become the Irish Free State, most notably Edward Carson but many others as well. They would have backed the Ulster Covenant and the Ulster Unionist movement but mainly because they believed that they would prevent any form of independence from being granted to Ireland. Upon hearing the news that Ireland would be partitioned, many of these unionists condemned it initially, but after this, there seems to have been very little activism towards reincorporating the new Irish Free State back into the UK, in starch contrast to the continued nationalist opposition to partition that continued in Northern Ireland. It is true that many unionists would have left for the UK or in some cases were expelled by force but many former unionists did stay. Did these unionists simply accept that the game was up and that the settlement was final? Or did they simply remain silent out of fear of persecution and quietly managed to blend into the new political set-up? Or were they simply to small in the new state to have much influence (numbering around 10% if we are to presume that most Protestants were unionists)? Today, unionism in the Republic has a negligible presence in Irish politics and quite possibly does not exist at all as a political movement.

Unionism, at least in the North, had made it clear that they would take it upon themselves to oppose independence or Home Rule regardless of what Nationalism thought or Westminster agreed to. So why did Southern Unionists show little or no opposition to the new set-up, and what happened to them after partition?
 

Analyzer

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It is a question with a long, and I don't know all of it.

Where is Own Arse when he is actually needed ?
 

The Auldfella

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Some Unionists in the south simply adapted and began to associate themselves with the new southern Irish regime of Cumann na nGaedheal.On 19 January 1922, leading Unionists held a meeting and unanimously decided to support the Free State government.
Many gained appointment to the Free State's Senate, including the Earl of Dunraven and Thomas Westropp Bennett. Several generations of one Unionist political family, the Dockrells, won election as Teachta Dála (TDs).
The Dublin borough of Rathmines had a unionist majority up to the late 1920s, when a local government re-organisation abolished all Dublin borough councils. Later, the Earl of Granard and the Provost of Trinity College Dublin gained appointment to the President of Ireland's advisory body, the Council of State. Most Irish Unionists, however, simply withdrew from public life, and since the late 1920s there have been no self-professed Unionists elected to the Irish parliament.
 

Cruimh

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Some Unionists in the south simply adapted and began to associate themselves with the new southern Irish regime of Cumann na nGaedheal.On 19 January 1922, leading Unionists held a meeting and unanimously decided to support the Free State government.
Many gained appointment to the Free State's Senate, including the Earl of Dunraven and Thomas Westropp Bennett. Several generations of one Unionist political family, the Dockrells, won election as Teachta Dála (TDs).
The Dublin borough of Rathmines had a unionist majority up to the late 1920s, when a local government re-organisation abolished all Dublin borough councils. Later, the Earl of Granard and the Provost of Trinity College Dublin gained appointment to the President of Ireland's advisory body, the Council of State. Most Irish Unionists, however, simply withdrew from public life, and since the late 1920s there have been no self-professed Unionists elected to the Irish parliament.
The abolition of the senate, I have read, hit them hard.
 

gerhard dengler

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Prior to the partition of Ireland in 1922 most unionists were concentrated in what would become Northern Ireland. There were however a small but vocal group of unionists in the remaining 26 counties that would become the Irish Free State, most notably Edward Carson but many others as well. They would have backed the Ulster Covenant and the Ulster Unionist movement but mainly because they believed that they would prevent any form of independence from being granted to Ireland. Upon hearing the news that Ireland would be partitioned, many of these unionists condemned it initially, but after this, there seems to have been very little activism towards reincorporating the new Irish Free State back into the UK, in starch contrast to the continued nationalist opposition to partition that continued in Northern Ireland. It is true that many unionists would have left for the UK or in some cases were expelled by force but many former unionists did stay. Did these unionists simply accept that the game was up and that the settlement was final? Or did they simply remain silent out of fear of persecution and quietly managed to blend into the new political set-up? Or were they simply to small in the new state to have much influence (numbering around 10% if we are to presume that most Protestants were unionists)? Today, unionism in the Republic has a negligible presence in Irish politics and quite possibly does not exist at all as a political movement.

Unionism, at least in the North, had made it clear that they would take it upon themselves to oppose independence or Home Rule regardless of what Nationalism thought or Westminster agreed to. So why did Southern Unionists show little or no opposition to the new set-up, and what happened to them after partition?
I don't know why they showed little or no opposition to partition.
Perhaps the number of southern people who advocated the maintenance of the union was/is overestimated?
 

james5001

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I would be interested to know the percentage of large farms which are owned by Protestants.
 

linny55

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I thought they were all shot in some pogrom or other. Damn anyway.
 

thegregster

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I would be interested to know the percentage of large farms which are owned by Protestants.
I can provide a historical figure on that for Wicklow. Dont know about today.

In Wicklow in 1936 25% of the farms were under protestant ownership but they had 60% of the farms with over 200 acres. They had one third of the farms between 100-200 acres.

Also surprisingly it was claimed in that in 1961 protestants in the Border counties formed a much more even distribution of the community in terms of class.

http://books.google.ie/books?id=33g9AAAAIAAJ&pg=PA163&dq=protestant+farmers+wicklow&hl=en&sa=X&ei=egdWUcviMdOBhQfi5ICoBg&ved=0CC4Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=protestant farmers wicklow&f=false
 
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james5001

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Drogheda445

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I don't know why they showed little or no opposition to partition.
Perhaps the number of southern people who advocated the maintenance of the union was/is overestimated?
It would have been very small. Catholics, who were predominantly nationalist, numbered 90%+ IIRC. But even as a small minority within Ireland as a whole, (around a quarter of the population) they were still very vocal and made their opposition very clear. Nationalism in the North, by contrast (around a third of the population at the time, larger but still a minority in comparison the Southern Unionists) certainly were vocal in Northern politics and have remained vocal up until the present day.
 

Ex celt

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This is pisspoor stuff.
Edward Carson did not reside in the 26 counties after partition or even before it.I do not know where you got that one from.
Generally protestants,dissenters and unionists kept their heads down after partition due to Rome Rule and the State's assault upon their culture. WB Yeats,appalled at the mistreatment of fellow protestants and unionists,famously reminded the catholics that his was no petty people and basically anyone of any substance in ireland had been protestant. This is of course true up to today.
Protestants however generally left the place as did over two million catholics between 1921 and 1985. Eire was a hellhole whether you were a catholic ,dissenter or protestant.
The only two things of any significance to come out of Ireland since partition were the anglo irish bank 120% mortgage and wholesale buggery of the people by the catholic church and the state.
 

Dublin 4

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Most Irish Unionists, however, simply withdrew from public life, and since the late 1920s there have been no self-professed Unionists elected to the Irish parliament.
Except this Muttahfukkah :shock2:

When the Good Friday Agreement was voted upon North and South in 1998 it should have heralded a new era on this island. Those who believe that the Agreement is ultimately about Irish Unification are deluding themselves and their supporters. The Agreement was all about resolving the Irish question for good, not just for the next twenty years. It is not a staging post to a united Ireland.


http://www.politics.ie/forum/fine-gael/25684-brian-hayes-earns-praise-dail-speech-7.html

My father was Protestant, my mother was Catholic. I grew up in an environment where religious and political difference was kind of celebrated in our house. MY parents were quite brave getting married as a Catholic and Protestant in Ireland in the 1940s/50s. It was a hard thing to do.
Brian Hayes in the Irish Daily Mail… | The Cedar Lounge Revolution
 

Drogheda445

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The Unionist Party in the 26 county Free State along with the failed Cumann na nGaedhael Party and the Nazi Blueshirts formed the west-brit Party FINE GAEL.
None of this has anything to do with the OP. Certain elements of unionism later supported Cumann na nGaedhael and later FG but that doesn't make them Unionist, as they do not support reincorporating the Republic of Ireland into the UK (despite what some hardline republicans like to claim).
 

Drogheda445

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This is pisspoor stuff.
Edward Carson did not reside in the 26 counties after partition or even before it.I do not know where you got that one from.
Generally protestants,dissenters and unionists kept their heads down after partition due to Rome Rule and the State's assault upon their culture. WB Yeats,appalled at the mistreatment of fellow protestants and unionists,famously reminded the catholics that his was no petty people and basically anyone of any substance in ireland had been protestant. This is of course true up to today.
Protestants however generally left the place as did over two million catholics between 1921 and 1985. Eire was a hellhole whether you were a catholic ,dissenter or protestant.
The only two things of any significance to come out of Ireland since partition were the anglo irish bank 120% mortgage and wholesale buggery of the people by the catholic church and the state.
He was a southern Unionist by virtue of being born in Dublin and being opposed to partition. He wanted to keep all of Ireland within the UK.
 

Dr Pat

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This is pisspoor stuff.
Edward Carson did not reside in the 26 counties after partition or even before it.I do not know where you got that one from.
Generally protestants,dissenters and unionists kept their heads down after partition due to Rome Rule and the State's assault upon their culture. WB Yeats,appalled at the mistreatment of fellow protestants and unionists,famously reminded the catholics that his was no petty people and basically anyone of any substance in ireland had been protestant. This is of course true up to today.
Protestants however generally left the place as did over two million catholics between 1921 and 1985. Eire was a hellhole whether you were a catholic ,dissenter or protestant.
The only two things of any significance to come out of Ireland since partition were the anglo irish bank 120% mortgage and wholesale buggery of the people by the catholic church and the state.
:roll:We know you hate being born in Ireland but go easy on the hyperbole. You'll do yourself no good.
 
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