What Happens If FF Overtakes FG In Next Polls?

adamirer

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as read on twitter last night...

"The Apprentice candidates are like Fine Gael TDs. They all want their team to win, but get rid of their leader while doing it".
 


Chrisco

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as read on twitter last night...

"The Appretice candidates are like Fine Gael TDs. They all want their team to win, but get rid of their leader who is leading them to defeat while doing it".
Fixed that typo for you there.
 

anewbeginning

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A country run on the basis of opinion polls, with leaders changed on the basis of opinion polls is destined to be a poorly run country.

When Kenny was doing ok in the opinion polls, there was no demand to change him. A couple of bad opinion polls (alledgedly) and now he has to go. Talk about panic stricken knee jerk reaction.

It's time for FG supporters to come up with actual policies and try and get them implemented. The obsession with the leader's ratings over all else is getting a joke at this stage.

FG is quickly turning into a Labour type policy free zone, thanks to its supporters obession with opinion polls.
 

locke

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Of course it is!

Enda and FG were doing brilliant before the botched coup, touching the dizzy heights of jeez, 28-29%!!
I seem to remember polls in the mid 30s.

You can't compare to polls immediately before the putsch as the damage was already being done then.
 

Chrisco

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I seem to remember polls in the mid 30s.

You can't compare to polls immediately before the putsch as the damage was already being done then.
March was the last time that FG were at 34% or above.

How can you blame a putsch that hadn't taken place yet and which was triggered by a bad opinion poll for the bad opinion poll?

If this is an example of Fine Gael logic then God help us all!
 

culmore

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If Bruton is such a brilliant man , why have we not heard from him for the past few months, everyone wants him as leader of FG or minister for finance, but he has not come up with any policy documents that might show us a different way to doing things. To me he is not very impressive at all and would not convince me to vote for FG if he was leader
 

redhead101

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I got the call from Red C yesterday afternoon - the poll dealt with political preference, economic issues and crime. Wasn't informed who was the contracting media organisation or the date the poll results would be published. Presumably next weekend?
No SBPost poll this weekend. RedC might have been conducting a poll for your local media or for a political party.
 

locke

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March was the last time that FG were at 34% or above.

How can you blame a putsch that hadn't taken place yet and which was triggered by a bad opinion poll for the bad opinion poll?

If this is an example of Fine Gael logic then God help us all!
I'm not a FG supporter.

But I do know that whether I look in Ireland, Britain or further afield a party that indulges in infighting suffers in the polls.

It would be rewriting history to suggest that the first time discontent was noted in FG was when Bruton actually challenged Kenny. A trawl through the threads on here would easily confirm that.
 

Chrisco

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I'm not a FG supporter.

But I do know that whether I look in Ireland, Britain or further afield a party that indulges in infighting suffers in the polls.

It would be rewriting history to suggest that the first time discontent was noted in FG was when Bruton actually challenged Kenny. A trawl through the threads on here would easily confirm that.
Discontent and plotting are not the same thing.

Lots of FFers are discontented with Brian Cowen; are they to blame for FF's poor poll performance?
 

locke

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Lots of FFers are discontented with Brian Cowen; are they to blame for FF's poor poll performance?
Actually, I don't think it helps, although FF have been more successful in keeping the problems hidden.

Obviously, the state of the economy is the major factor in FF's demise, but the lack of authority of Cowen doesn't give voters any cause to think that he's going to help solve it.

There's a time and a place for challenging your leader and the run up to an election isn't it.

Just look at Australia where Gillard thought she'd improve Labour's lot and ended up doing worse than Rudd would have done.
 

GDPR

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Kenny seems like a decent man, but he has no grasp on policy and is a very bad media performer, two major problems for any potential national leader.

That is not to say he would not make a "good" Taoiseach, Bruton’s main achievement as leader of the rainbow was to stay out of the way, I'm sure Kenny could manage that just as well.

As I see it the real problem for FG is much deeper, it is the lack of depth of talent on their front bench, apart from one or two they have very little to offer of anything like ministerial quality. None of that will stop them being part of the next Government, we're too far down the line for that, but between general lack of quality & Kenny, it might push them into being the junior partner.
 

jmcc

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So Tonic,
FG could be competing with FF to be the junior partner in government if Enda Kenny stays leader of FG? It is clear that with anyone other than Enda Kenny at the helm of FG, FF would be in real trouble but I'm beginning to wonder about Cyberianpan's strange conspiracy theory about Enda Kenny being FF's best asset in FG. :)

Regards...jmcc
 

adamirer

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If Bruton is such a brilliant man , why have we not heard from him for the past few months, everyone wants him as leader of FG or minister for finance, but he has not come up with any policy documents that might show us a different way to doing things. To me he is not very impressive at all and would not convince me to vote for FG if he was leader
Well no offense, but thats a matter of your own ignorance then. You should try looking for it rather that waiting for it to be spoonfed to you.

He devised their very different bank strategy being the very obvious one as well has his last few 'atl budgets'. Go read them. Secondly, Burton was on several different radio showings a fortnight ago, Cooper being one of them, where he explicity laid out the different FG policies (which are drafted as a team). Its all there if you care to research it.
 

anewbeginning

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So after 450,000 unemployed, 20 billion annual deficit, 90 billion black hole in the banks, people would still rather vote FF over FG?

Is that the fault of Enda Kenny who had nothing to do with the figures I mention above? Or has it more to do with the downright stupidity of the general public, who still believe FF are a better party to run the country? I believe it's the latter, since Kenny has absolutely no control over the country or economy, even though some idiots seem to think he has. There is clearly an effort in some quarters to blame Kenny for all the nation's woes. Cowen tries this every so often, trying to blame the opposition, and the Sindo do it as well. Now the people have started to believe it.

Kenny's ratings are still a good bit above Cowens. It's FG ratings that have dipped. There is clearly an attempt, misplaced in my view, to link Kenny to FG lower poll ratings. But a couple of factors are being ignored. 1, the masochistic nature of the Irish electorate, who it seems will favour FF no matter what and 2. FG has become a relatively policy free zone in recent months because many TDs spend more time worrying how to oust the leader than actually come up with policies.

Kenny has been doing a lot better job than many other FG TDs. I never even heard of PJ Sheehan for example until the recent controversy and who else had heard of him? There are dozens of TDs in FG who you never hear from. It's time they started to look at their own performance first. A team leader can only do so much, especially if he is working with a team of limited ability who are individualistic. Frankly I'd hate to be leader of FG as you have so many clowns in the party who think they know better than the next person.

FG have too many TDs who are simply not pulling their weight. I expect this to change though now the Dail has resumed.
 

Gemlarkin

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Just about the only FG TD who wants to go into Government is Enda Kenny

Just about the only FG TD who wants to go into Government is Enda Kenny.

Most of them know they won't get a Ministry. Why take on the hassle and abuse for the same money.

The Fianna Fáil TDs cannot wait to get off the Government benches.
 

jmcc

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A team leader can only do so much, especially if he is working with a team of limited ability who are individualistic.
It isn't a about running a bloody soccer team. It is about running the government of Ireland!

And to lead the government of Ireland, you've got to be a leader. The mess that is the current, temporary, government of Ireland is leaderless, unless you categorise that village idiot on tour Cowen as a leader. And yet Enda Kenny can't even run the leadership of FG without making a complete dog's dinner of the whole thing. Up Mayo, indeed.

Regards...jmcc
 

anewbeginning

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It isn't a about running a bloody soccer team. It is about running the government of Ireland!

And to lead the government of Ireland, you've got to be a leader. The mess that is the current, temporary, government of Ireland is leaderless, unless you categorise that village idiot on tour Cowen as a leader. And yet Enda Kenny can't even run the leadership of FG without making a complete dog's dinner of the whole thing. Up Mayo, indeed.

Regards...jmcc
Dog's dinner of a leadership?

Bruton and his fans made a dog's dinner of the heave. Does that demonstrate leadership to you?

You have idiots like P J Sheehen going around trying to drive drunk home.

You have TDs who have in the last 6 months spent more time on getting rid of Kenny than coming up with policies to actually save the country.

Next you will be blaming Kenny for the fact Bruton made a b*lls of the heave! Is there anything you won't blame Kenny for? Maybe banking deregulation in Ireland, an area which by the way Richard Bruton was directly responsible for in FG and who seems to have turned a blind eye to what went on, the same Bruton who has shares in several banks.

Bruton bears more responsibiliy for the mess we are in than Kenny as he was finance spokesperson.

Ah but don't let that get in the way of blaming Kenny for everything.

Bruton is an economist and economists equals unimaginative slash and burn policies of the type suggested by many economists lately. So please be aware of what you will get from RB, exactly the same as you are getting from FF and Lenihan today.
 

kittykat

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Waste of time

It is clear to me that FG is going to be lead into the next election by EK. The only way that will change is if he decides to walk away. It is by no means certain that doing so would be of any benefit to FG as no leader of FG, except EK, since Garret has improved election results for them. http://www.politics.ie/fine-gael/138857-end-enda-39.html#post3042928 Given that what we have seen in polling terms is a simple direct move to the LP from FF and that FG have gained nothing in the process it seem unlikely that EK is the only problem the FG are facing. As several FG commentators have said a positive leadership rating is of very limited use to a party so there must be a limit to the negative impact.
If you look at the long term trends the vote centre right / conservative parties is in decline in Ireland. This was observed by Micky Martin on a recent program. As any statistician familiar with social change will confirm it is common for such changes to accelerate suddenly after long slow change.
I know it is not going to be popular with many posters on P.ie but, as the numbers in the Dail decide governments, the odds on the next govt remain FG/FF after recent polling. It would certainly seem to be the only chance of an FG Taoiseach which is still most likely to be EK. The choice may be between Tánaiste to Happy Gilmore or Taoiseach.
 


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