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What is exploitation?

McTell

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No
Exploitation is taking something without giving an equal value back.
It's legal, but it's not fair.

There should be no losers in a commercial transaction. If there is, we find exploitation.

It's more of a legal rather a philosophical subject imo.
There is already a price differ when you "break bulk". A truck full of oranges is cheaper per orange than if they're in a bag of 4.

Labour cost is just one element in selling a bag to Mrs Assumpta O'Reilly. The oranges were grown by Hernan Jesus de Orellana in Sevilla. Someday she may buy them direct from him. Until then, there's no exploitation.
 


roc_

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There is already a price differ when you "break bulk". A truck full of oranges is cheaper per orange than if they're in a bag of 4.

Labour cost is just one element in selling a bag to Mrs Assumpta O'Reilly. The oranges were grown by Hernan Jesus de Orellana in Sevilla. Someday she may buy them direct from him. Until then, there's no exploitation.
Well, there is in an important sense if you look to the bigger picture. E.g.

"... As matters have turned out, banking has allied itself with real estate, mineral extraction, oil, gas and monopolies instead of with industry. So instead of getting a share of the profits, it has focused on lending against economic rent. This technical term is defined as unearned income. It is obtained by charging prices in excess of cost value. Economic rent has no counterpart in the cost of putting means of production in place. And land has no cost; it is provided by nature. The only “cost” is the price of buying the right to charge rent on it. This economic rent is created by special legal privilege or ownership rights to install tollbooths on roads, education systems and other basic needs. Owners aim to charge as they can, without regard for how this affects overall growth and balance..."

I.e. The del montes of this world, in hand with banking and governments who create and uphold certain facilitative legal rights do exploit on a number of levels, even in the seemingly simple activity of making as much profit as they can from the growing and bringing to market of oranges.
 

Dame_Enda

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I think when it comes to adults, they themselves should be allowed decide whether they are being exploited. A problem of a paternalistic or maternalistic state is it sortof acts as a kind of nanny telling them they don't know whats best for them and the government will tell them if they are being exploited or not, even at the cost of the subjects autonomy, as seen with the repressive laws locking up the sex workers for 9 months in a recent case.

An inherent contradiction exists between telling someone they are exploited (and therefore a victim) while then proceeding to lock them up for being what the Nanny Statists consider to be a "victim".

I think if I had to work in a zero hours contract or if an employer forced me to sign a document for bogus self employment to avoid affording me the legal rights of an employee, I would feel exploited. Likewise if I had to live in the conditions of the RTE program "Nightmare to Rent", having to share with scores of people 13 to a room like an overcrowded public hospital without doctors, nurses or medicine, and being expected to pay rent for that, I would feel exploited.
 

McTell

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No
///

I.e. The del montes of this world, in hand with banking and governments who create and uphold certain facilitative legal rights do exploit on a number of levels, even in the seemingly simple activity of making as much profit as they can from the growing and bringing to market of oranges.

Yes, but those legal rights are open to everyone to use. The rich have a better handle on the system and a head start.

We can criticise that head start, but same goes for a government job, the occupier has a head start on everyone else. He expects to stay in it for life, whether he is any use or not. That's exploitation as well.

Then look at all the amazons and googles that came out of nowhere.

And if oranges seem pricey, you can grow your own, which our ancestors couldn't do 200 years ago.
 


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