What is patriotism?

statsman

statsman

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Came across this on Twitter, and it made me wonder what the Irish version would be?

Being sound on the National Question?
Eating lots of spuds and butter and drinking stout?
Croke Park in September and Glasgow Celtic?

Is it to late for me to apply for a German passport?

 


L

Lumpy Talbot

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No
That whole flag in the yard thing in the US is a bit weird. It is like a reminder in case you forget which nationality you are.

Having said that nationalism has become a dirty word and is now associated with right wing opportunity for an excuse for war or repression of the 'other'.

Many in national governments are actively trying to suppress nationalism in return for a paid post with a supranational organisation and it is de rigeuer these days to deprecate any national pride as somehow uncouth.

Still the American version is a sort of engendered psychosis and a useful cover excuse for denuding Virginia of its teenagers to die in the dust of the middle east so the average American is fed on a diet of 'corporate' nationalism from dawn to dusk in their lives.

There is a sort of inverted snobbery about nationalism in Europe, partly out of old fears of what can happen with excessive nationalism, partly out of an embarrassed attempt to justify being a tax evader if you are wealthy, partly out of a horror of being associated with fascist skinheads of the underclass if you are middle class and partly out of aping your betters if you are in the underclass.

Still though a surprising amount of people sense this and outbreaks of nationalism are noticeable in surprise voting results.

Nationalism has become the political love that dares not speak its name.
 
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Lumpy Talbot

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No
Better than being loyal to a foreign influence before your own country. If the patriot is a scoundrel what does that make the person who expresses such loyalty to another state entirely?

Other than a prostitute.
 
Des Quirell

Des Quirell

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Lumpy Talbot said:
That whole flag in the yard thing in the US is a bit weird. It is like a reminder in case you forget which nationality you are.

Having said that nationalism has become a dirty word and is now associated with right wing opportunity for an excuse for war or repression of the 'other'.

Many in national governments are actively trying to suppress nationalism in return for a paid post with a supranational organisation and it is de rigeuer these days to deprecate any national pride as somehow uncouth.

Still the American version is a sort of engendered psychosis and a useful cover excuse for denuding Virginia of its teenagers to die in the dust of the middle east so the average American is fed on a diet of 'corporate' nationalism from dawn to dusk in their lives.

There is a sort of inverted snobbery about nationalism in Europe, partly out of old fears of what can happen with excessive nationalism, partly out of an embarrassed attempt to justify being a tax evader if you are wealthy, partly out of a horror of being associated with fascist skinheads of the underclass if you are middle class and partly out of aping your betters if you are in the underclass.

Still though a surprising amount of people sense this and outbreaks of nationalism are noticeable in surprise voting results.

Nationalism has become the political love that dares not speak its name.
Click to expand...
I guess I'm neither nationalist nor particularly patriotic, but there is a risk here of making a Thornberry error. Her tweet said a lot about how far some politicos have become removed from their people. The guy was flying the George flag during a soccer tournament. I was shocked not so much at her blase assumption that it was OK to tweet like that but at her immediate reactions and her subsequent drafting into the shadow cabinet. I'm not a flag flyer, but that took some tone deafness on her part.
 
G

GDPR

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Nationalism has a specific meaning in Ireland.

In the wider context, I was always taught that nationalism amounted to a belief that your country was better than any one elses, whereas patriotism was the belief that your country could always be better, but should be loved anyway.
 
between the bridges

between the bridges

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Patriotism means selecting the correct attire for a sunny fermanagh twelfth...

 
eoghanacht

eoghanacht

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The last refuge of a.......

It's called donning the green Jersey, don't talk in front of the neighbours ;)
 
eoghanacht

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Lumpy Talbot

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No
Patriotism should be about leaving aside a small amount of personal concern for the society into which you are born.

All too often that is translated into a hatred of other societies which is the downside.

Still. Supermarkets haven't stopped offering kitchen implements just because some people use them batter others.
 
G

GDPR

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Lumpy Talbot said:
Patriotism should be about leaving aside a small amount of personal concern for the society into which you are born.

All too often that is translated into a hatred of other societies which is the downside.

Still. Supermarkets haven't stopped offering kitchen implements just because some people use them batter others.
Click to expand...
Thats pretty close to my post. I was exposed to the European view of "nationalism", rooted in their historical experience, that it always contained an element of "othering" someone else - either neighbours or members of your own society. Wo Deutsche er ist? How German is it? Inevitably based on false, narrow, and exclusive concepts of what the country or its people were or should be.

Orwell described this "My country right or wrong" as being the intellectual equivalent of "My mother drunk or sober."

Patriotism however was a defence against barbarism and injustice.
 
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