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What is "the deal" and what would it mean?


Disillusioned democrat

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Okay - so "the deal" may or may not be back on, but what is "the deal" and what difference is it really likely to make?

Ireland is carrying €64bn of debt that it wouldn't be if both our own and the ECB's financial regulators were doing their jobs AND we're running a current deficit because, even with interest and repayments excluded, we're spending more money on our government, its employees and its beneficiaries than they're able to squeeze out of the tax payers.

Are we fooling ourselves that somehow this "deal" will make everything okay again and avoiding the reality that, deal or no deal, we still need very radical reforms. Based on a best case scenario - does anyone have any opinions on what the deal will do for Irish tax payers?
 


Bonsai Experiment

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It will make our balance sheet look more sane to international investors , hence allow us to return to the markets and hopefully avoid another bailout. Will allow govt to force banks to start targetting negative equity etc. in debt forgiveness measures , allow government to force banks to lend to small business....thus generating liquidity, thus stimulating economic growth, thus increasing revenue and thus closing the budget deficit in a healthier way than the slash- burn- die -kill -austerity madness that we currently face.
 

skiii

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The 'deal' is confirmation of what we alrady knew- we are an official(basket) case.And we're so fooked that's meant to be good news.
 

Disillusioned democrat

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It will make our balance sheet look more sane to international investors , hence allow us to return to the markets and hopefully avoid another bailout. Will allow govt to force banks to start targetting negative equity etc. in debt forgiveness measures , allow government to force banks to lend to small business....thus generating liquidity, thus stimulating economic growth, thus increasing revenue and thus closing the budget deficit in a healthier way than the slash- burn- die -kill -austerity madness that we currently face.
Am I correct in thinking that it will do very little really to address the elephant in the room, that we're a 2nd world country with 1st world government, public service and social welfare?
 

Clanrickard

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Am I correct in thinking that it will do very little really to address the elephant in the room, that we're a 2nd world country with 1st world government, public service and social welfare?
You mean our inflated social welfare payments and bloated public sector salaries? Correct. Deep cuts to be implemented no matter what is secured in the "deal".
 

goosebump

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Am I correct in thinking that it will do very little really to address the elephant in the room, that we're a 2nd world country with 1st world government, public service and social welfare?
That's about the height of it.

Any deal, if there is one, will be about the repayments, not the capital, so its impact will be minimal.

Anyone who thinks there will be a debt write down should put themselves in the shoes of a German taxpayer.

Would you like your taxes to go to pay off loans that were used in another country to great the most generous social welfare system in Europe and the highest paid civil servants?
 

SKELLY

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The deal will be a long term bond on the PN and nothing more.

The rest will be saddled on the taxpayer to teach us a lesson and keep us down. Like a war off attrition ze germans will sing a song and ultimatly our corp tax will be on the table.

Watch and see as we move towards the second bailout, federalised budgets, CCTB etc.
 

Trainwreck

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The deal is this.

We pretend that Angela Merkel has offered us lots of money and

Angela Merkel won't tell us to STFU in public,
 

Goa Tse

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There is no "deal" and it means sweet fuck all. Sorry to be the one who p1sses in everyone's Cornflakes, but at least I'm not deulding myself like the europhiles, govt shills and others that populate this joke of a site.

It's all hot air and idle speculation. Having said that, why would the Germans change anything, seeing as the govt is so willing to screw us to appease them?

All that matters is we (and Greece, Spain et al), but especially us, manipulated by our servile govt & media to the point of Stockholm Syndrome, continue to be economic cannon fodder to take the flak to safeguard both the sacred cow single currency the €uro, and the German economy.

That's all.
 
Last edited:

Disillusioned democrat

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That's about the height of it.

Any deal, if there is one, will be about the repayments, not the capital, so its impact will be minimal.

Anyone who thinks there will be a debt write down should put themselves in the shoes of a German taxpayer.

Would you like your taxes to go to pay off loans that were used in another country to great the most generous social welfare system in Europe and the highest paid civil servants?
Are our leaders are being somewhat disingenuous focussing on the “big deal” when really it will mean nothing for 75% of the population and merely enable the direct beneficiaries of even more cheap money – today’s recipients of many tomorrows’ money – live on as if the bubble hadn’t burst?
Are they being purposefully misleading and lazy or do many politicians believe that the cheap long term money will allow the private sector get back to being able to fund the kind of auction politics they rely on for success?
 

skiii

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The deal is confirmation that we are drowning in an orderly manner.
 

Lonewolfe

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I'd tip my hat (if I wore one) to Enda for gettin Merkels on the blower to explain herself after her comments the other day.

And it appears the "Yes", we are a special case and some "special" treatment is in order.

However, we simply cannot wait until after the German elections in 2013 to get this relief - we need it now and Enda ought to make that clear.
 

statsman

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Okay - so "the deal" may or may not be back on, but what is "the deal" and what difference is it really likely to make?

Ireland is carrying €64bn of debt that it wouldn't be if both our own and the ECB's financial regulators were doing their jobs AND we're running a current deficit because, even with interest and repayments excluded, we're spending more money on our government, its employees and its beneficiaries than they're able to squeeze out of the tax payers.

Are we fooling ourselves that somehow this "deal" will make everything okay again and avoiding the reality that, deal or no deal, we still need very radical reforms. Based on a best case scenario - does anyone have any opinions on what the deal will do for Irish tax payers?
There isn't any deal, so it doesn't mean anything.

A future deal would most likely mean converting the short-term PNs into a longer-term mortgage-type repayments. It would also mean signing up to enforceable bank regulation at a Eurozone level, which might well be a good thing.
 

Radix

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Okay - so "the deal" may or may not be back on, but what is "the deal" and what difference is it really likely to make?

Ireland is carrying €64bn of debt that it wouldn't be if both our own and the ECB's financial regulators were doing their jobs AND we're running a current deficit because, even with interest and repayments excluded, we're spending more money on our government, its employees and its beneficiaries than they're able to squeeze out of the tax payers.

Are we fooling ourselves that somehow this "deal" will make everything okay again and avoiding the reality that, deal or no deal, we still need very radical reforms. Based on a best case scenario - does anyone have any opinions on what the deal will do for Irish tax payers?
The deal is, Ireland fought imperialists for its own sovereignty in 1916, and that by the time it approached the very first centennial anniversary of this, it had lost that sovereignty so completely that it had to be bailed out by its new imperial masters.

The deal is, be damn glad your Dad has welcomed you home, oh Prodigal One!
 

Spanner Island

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Feb 22, 2011
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Okay - so "the deal" may or may not be back on, but what is "the deal" and what difference is it really likely to make?

Ireland is carrying €64bn of debt that it wouldn't be if both our own and the ECB's financial regulators were doing their jobs AND we're running a current deficit because, even with interest and repayments excluded, we're spending more money on our government, its employees and its beneficiaries than they're able to squeeze out of the tax payers.

Are we fooling ourselves that somehow this "deal" will make everything okay again and avoiding the reality that, deal or no deal, we still need very radical reforms. Based on a best case scenario - does anyone have any opinions on what the deal will do for Irish tax payers?
The 'deal' for me is simply about fairness and sanity.

Banking debts should never have been foisted on us, never mind the fact the amount that was foisted on us is impossible for a country of 5 million people to pay...

Private banking debts should always have been paid by private banks and if they couldn't pay, then they should have gone bust. Simple as. What happened instead was, is and always will be an obscenity.

Regarding any 'deal' being a magic bullet that will solve our problems... utter horse sh!te...

Even without the banking debts this country is in a massive hole and is blowing a lot more than it is making...

What worries me about any potential 'deal' on our bank debts is that there will be plenty of gobsh!tes and particularly those in our rotten 'establishment' who will think it's back to business as usual and who will be expecting a return to the kind of madness of the 'bubble'...

This should never be allowed happen. Nor should we want it to happen...

Even if/when a 'deal' is done on the bank debts, our rotten 'establishment' still costs far too much and there still needs to be massive reforms and cuts in the costs of the Irish state sector generally, both in 'services' and in welfare etc.
 

tirnacrann

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Aug 25, 2012
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I'd tip my hat (if I wore one) to Enda for gettin Merkels on the blower to explain herself after her comments the other day.

And it appears the "Yes", we are a special case and some "special" treatment is in order.

However, we simply cannot wait until after the German elections in 2013 to get this relief - we need it now and Enda ought to make that clear.

Perhaps when we stop paying our politicians and some of our public servants twice the european average we might have more grounds for claiming to be a '' special case''
 

wombat

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Jun 16, 2007
Messages
32,308
Okay - so "the deal" may or may not be back on, but what is "the deal" and what difference is it really likely to make?
There is no deal but Merkel is open to the possibility of one being negotiated, details of which we will learn when it is finalised.
 

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