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What is the rationale behind concealing the State's books from the public?


LiberalFG

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@dmvmurphy
Forgive me if I sound ill-informed.
I was wondering, in light of the recent events whereby Opposition Finance spokespersons were shown the true horrors of the State's books by Dept of Finance officials [which implies that information was kept from them and the public] , why is it that they are concealed from the public? Surely, it would aid transparency and public discourse about the economy and the way forward if we knew exactly what was going on with regards to the State finances? What is the downside of showing us, warts and all, how bad the situation is?
 

He3

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Information is power.

People are not to be empowered.
 

Oldira1

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You do not publicise corruption or incompetence. Why are we being told ZERO on the NAMA bailouts? For all we know developers are still paying themselves tens of thousands a year courtesy of NAMA. Or professional firms being paid €1000 a week for that matter.
 

cyberianpan

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The vast majority of the Irish people are demented gibbering idiots with a rudimentary grasp of mere arithmetic, let alone accounting

This time last year the gibber monkeys were hooting over the Nama SPV's- as though they'd divined the 3rd secret of Fatima - now the issue has (rightfully) been forgotten

Until the standard of public debate in this country improves: I'd be inclined not to release any data - as else the demented gibberoons will flood the public policy debate channel - and wreck any meaningful debate

cYp
 

LiberalFG

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It just seems a bit disgraceful that only senior politicians of the Government and civil servants are privy to this information. I'm somewhat more sympathetic towards the Mullingar Accord getting the projections so disastrously wrong for the 2007 GE now.
 

Sensible Head

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The vast majority of the Irish people are demented gibbering idiots with a rudimentary grasp of mere arithmetic, let alone accounting

cYp
Thank god we have people like yourself to protect us from ourselves.

I'll go with He3 on this one.
 

LiberalFG

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If indeed, the real reason for the CIA type secrecy is that the public are innumerate morons, what is the official reason or pretext for the DOF keeping everything to themselves?
 

cyberianpan

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If indeed, the real reason for the CIA type secrecy is that the public are innumerate morons, what is the official reason or pretext for the DOF keeping everything to themselves?
"Market sensitivity" - which is bunkum as we are not in the debt markets now

cYp
 

LiberalFG

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"Market sensitivity" - which is bunkum as we are not in the debt markets now

cYp
Oh I see, so they effectively lie to, and conceal information from, the markets in order to keep the bond prices low? How lovely....
 

Dreaded_Estate

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The vast majority of the Irish people are demented gibbering idiots with a rudimentary grasp of mere arithmetic, let alone accounting

This time last year the gibber monkeys were hooting over the Nama SPV's- as though they'd divined the 3rd secret of Fatima - now the issue has (rightfully) been forgotten

Until the standard of public debate in this country improves: I'd be inclined not to release any data - as else the demented gibberoons will flood the public policy debate channel - and wreck any meaningful debate

cYp
In the absence of accurate information all debate is meaningless
 

cyberianpan

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In the absence of accurate information all debate is meaningless
The obviousness of where we are ... is very high

It was obvious last year that the DOF were on a "double or quits" strategy, predicated on growth ...

It has been obvious for 5 + years that current spending is unsustainable (I recall Bruton making a very clear speech about "bubble revenue" being unsustainable)

Borrowing€25b+ a year .... no significant growth prospects ... = swingeing cuts

cYp
 

cyberianpan

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Oh I see, so they effectively lie to, and conceal information from, the markets in order to keep the bond prices low? How lovely....
Meh... companies conceal "commercially sensitive" info all the time

Competing on information asymmetries is perfectly normal... which is yet another reason why the EMH is demented bunkum

cYp
 

ChickenBiryani

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What a load of horsesh!t. As insincere as Noonan/Burton's fake surprise at the numbers.

The states books are open. The dept/cso/esri publish detailed exchequer breakdowns on a monthly basis for those that are bothered to read them. They are available going back years.

Here they are for those who couldn't use google.

Exchequer Statements - Department of Finance - Government of Ireland

It has been published for ages what state we are in. A simpleton can do the numbers.

The only figure thats missing in terms of plugging the gap over the next 4 years is the growth estimate, and that estimate in itself is an estimate by people who have shown themselves to be completely and utterly incompetent when it comes to the business of estimating.

Theres no need to hide anything here folks. Reality is bad enough without embellishment.
 

farnaby

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Until the standard of public debate in this country improves: I'd be inclined not to release any data - as else the demented gibberoons will flood the public policy debate channel - and wreck any meaningful debate

cYp
Way off topic but are you aware of anywhere where opposing sides have 'meaningful' debate i.e. one that actually generates ideas that governments listen to and put into policy?

Calls for 'meaningful public debate' are hollow, a rhetorical dead end.

Either people are treated like citizens or serfs - and to be good citizens requires access to information with which to make informed opinion. Obviously you think we deserve to be treated like serfs - a perfectly valid and consistent viewpoint provided you count yourself in that group.
 

eoghanacht

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The vast majority of the Irish people are demented gibbering idiots with a rudimentary grasp of mere arithmetic, let alone accounting

This time last year the gibber monkeys were hooting over the Nama SPV's- as though they'd divined the 3rd secret of Fatima - now the issue has (rightfully) been forgotten

Until the standard of public debate in this country improves: I'd be inclined not to release any data - as else the demented gibberoons will flood the public policy debate channel - and wreck any meaningful debate

cYp
It's condecending attitude's that got us into this mess. Poor old CyP it must be terrible hard for you surrounded by all us untermensch.

'Meanful debate', tell me where thats going on in LH's bar?
 

LiberalFG

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What a load of horsesh!t. As insincere as Noonan/Burton's fake surprise at the numbers.

The states books are open. The dept/cso/esri publish detailed exchequer breakdowns on a monthly basis for those that are bothered to read them. They are available going back years.

Here they are for those who couldn't use google.

Exchequer Statements - Department of Finance - Government of Ireland

It has been published for ages what state we are in. A simpleton can do the numbers.

The only figure thats missing in terms of plugging the gap over the next 4 years is the growth estimate, and that estimate in itself is an estimate by people who have shown themselves to be completely and utterly incompetent when it comes to the business of estimating.

Theres no need to hide anything here folks. Reality is bad enough without embellishment.
I would have thought same. I was just taken aback by the white faces of Noonan and Burton when they saw the figures because I thought the "dogs on the street" knew how bad the situation is.
 

HarshBuzz

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I would have thought same. I was just taken aback by the white faces of Noonan and Burton when they saw the figures because I thought the "dogs on the street" knew how bad the situation is.
I really don't know what they were playing at there. Anyone with a rudimentary knowledge of the internet can find all the relevant metrics within minutes, as ChickenBiryani said.

this whole idea of 'opening the books' is horse manure.
The books I'd really like to take a look at are Anglo and INBS.
 

eoghanacht

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I would have thought same. I was just taken aback by the white faces of Noonan and Burton when they saw the figures because I thought the "dogs on the street" knew how bad the situation is.
Yes but Noonan and Burton live in the cocoon that is Irish Politics, reality is just beginning to hit home for these eijits
 

mr_anderson

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You do not publicise corruption or incompetence. Why are we being told ZERO on the NAMA bailouts? For all we know developers are still paying themselves tens of thousands a year courtesy of NAMA. Or professional firms being paid €1000 a week for that matter.

A week ? :lol::lol::lol:

Try an hour !
 

LowIQ

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Joined
Feb 9, 2005
Messages
287
The vast majority of the Irish people are demented gibbering idiots with a rudimentary grasp of mere arithmetic, let alone accounting

This time last year the gibber monkeys were hooting over the Nama SPV's- as though they'd divined the 3rd secret of Fatima - now the issue has (rightfully) been forgotten

Until the standard of public debate in this country improves: I'd be inclined not to release any data - as else the demented gibberoons will flood the public policy debate channel - and wreck any meaningful debate

cYp
Gibberish
 
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