What is 'Whiteness' - Does it even exist?



owedtojoy

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I don’t really understand your OP. I’m white. Known as caucasion in America. I presume to black, Asian people I would be white. As to it’s meaning, I guess it’s anyone who looks much like me. Would apply to the majority of Europeans. Many in the lives of USA, Canada etc.
So, it is a social thing, a shorthand. Police use words like "male Caucasian" or "African female" but those are just handy labels not scientific differences.

The mistake is to assume that "race" can be scientifically designated.

There are no races, but we have ancestries that is expressed in our genes. Those ancestries are shared across may skin colours, and are not really capable of easy distinctions. Human ancestry is like a plate of spaghetti, not a series of parallel lines.
 

Enoch Root

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I think "old" is the word to be emphasised here. Old and discredited.

Died 1981.
Coon shouldn't be laughed at - at the time he was putting forward a well-thought out and researched hypothesis, based on the evidence available at the time.

But yes, people who claim or imply that this theory is still valid should be laughed at. Not because of the possible resist overtones, but simply because of their ignorance of how the scientific method works.

Once acceptable theories, once objectively disproven, are no longer acceptable. That's how we progress.
 

owedtojoy

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We happily concede (because the facts are incontrovertible) that when it comes to speed West Africans and their descendants in the West are the fastest human beings:
We’re for Sydney | Daily Telegraph

Similarly, when it comes to endurance, the best marathon runners in the world all are East African:
World leading times 2019

The tallest men in the world are Dutch:
Dutch men revealed as world's tallest

The shortest men are the East Timorese:
These are the countries with the shortest men in the world

Red hair is most common among Northern or North Western Europeans:
Red hair - Wikipedia
While epicanthic folds are almost universal among Asian populations:
Epicanthic fold - Wikipedia

We know that Ireland has the highest incidence of Cystic Fibrosis in the world:
While Sub-Saharan Africans have the highest incidence of sickle-cell anemia:
Sickle cell disease - Wikipedia

We are however required (partly by political correctness and partly by religion) to accept that the differences between human beings cannot extend to include psychological factors, including intelligence.
So if you meet a short person, he must be from East Timor?

Someone with Cystic Fibrosis must be Irish? Does no one else have Cystic Fibrosis besides the Irish?

You can make probabilities out of these, but you cannot define "races" because of them. To do so would be completely stupid, but of course stupid never stopped anyone.
 

owedtojoy

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Don't the modern geneticists tell us that Africa contains "the greatest amount of human genetic diversity"?
Because that is where the human race originated. Being the root stock, it has the most variation.
 

Emily Davison

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So, it is a social thing, a shorthand. Police use words like "male Caucasian" or "African female" but those are just handy labels not scientific differences.

The mistake is to assume that "race" can be scientifically designated.

There are no races, but we have ancestries that is expressed in our genes. Those ancestries are shared across may skin colours, and are not really capable of easy distinctions. Human ancestry is like a plate of spaghetti, not a series of parallel lines.
The OP mentioned nothing about race. To me what we are is human beings. All of us. And some of us are white, some black, some brown etc I have no experience of police labelling me anything. American tv shows about police related matters yes.

Is there a scientific difference between me and an Egyptian or a Chinese or a Somalian. To look at each of us we are different by our skin color, our hair type, our eyes. But we're all still human. Upright mammals who can speak, work, read. Which differentiates us from animals.

Is this thread meant to be about race. It's not clear from the OP.

In addition to being white I'm Anglo, Celt, Saxon. As far as I know. Which reminds me I must do a DNA test.
 

Enoch Root

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The OP mentioned nothing about race. To me what we are is human beings. All of us. And some of us are white, some black, some brown etc I have no experience of police labelling me anything. American tv shows about police related matters yes.

Is there a scientific difference between me and an Egyptian or a Chinese or a Somalian. To look at each of us we are different by our skin color, our hair type, our eyes. But we're all still human. Upright mammals who can speak, work, read. Which differentiates us from animals.

Is this thread meant to be about race. It's not clear from the OP.

In addition to being white I'm Anglo, Celt, Saxon. As far as I know. Which reminds me I must do a DNA test.
Even "Angle", "Saxon" and "Celt" are spurious terms, really, in terms of any biological definition. They're names given to historical tribes of people. As tribes, they had shared cultural commonalities and some genetic commonalities, but they were all bog-standard humans - they're not races or unique "breeds" of human.

As for white, that's a whole range of blotchy pinkness, really. White, these days, just means "not not-white", whatever that is. Apart from the nuttiness the "white power" crowd believe, but, as I said earlier, they're desperately trying to ignore the paradox that, for the vast majority of them, they don't actually qualify as "white" and so shouldn't be part of the exclusive club they promote.
 
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owedtojoy

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The OP mentioned nothing about race. To me what we are is human beings. All of us. And some of us are white, some black, some brown etc I have no experience of police labelling me anything. American tv shows about police related matters yes.

Is there a scientific difference between me and an Egyptian or a Chinese or a Somalian. To look at each of us we are different by our skin color, our hair type, our eyes. But we're all still human. Upright mammals who can speak, work, read. Which differentiates us from animals.

Is this thread meant to be about race. It's not clear from the OP.

In addition to being white I'm Anglo, Celt, Saxon. As far as I know. Which reminds me I must do a DNA test.
For all the labels (from Chinese to Celt) you mention, 99.9% of the human DNA is the same.

"Whiteness" as a race label is inane, since there are at lest 100 different human skin tones.

For me, it should be always clear that when we are using a label like "White" or "German", it is just a convenient label and not a sharply-defined category, so hasty generalisations are to be avoided.
 

stopdoingstuff

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We happily concede (because the facts are incontrovertible) that when it comes to speed West Africans and their descendants in the West are the fastest human beings:
We’re for Sydney | Daily Telegraph

Similarly, when it comes to endurance, the best marathon runners in the world all are East African:
World leading times 2019

The tallest men in the world are Dutch:
Dutch men revealed as world's tallest

The shortest men are the East Timorese:
These are the countries with the shortest men in the world

Red hair is most common among Northern or North Western Europeans:
Red hair - Wikipedia
While epicanthic folds are almost universal among Asian populations:
Epicanthic fold - Wikipedia

We know that Ireland has the highest incidence of Cystic Fibrosis in the world:
While Sub-Saharan Africans have the highest incidence of sickle-cell anemia:
Sickle cell disease - Wikipedia

We are however required (partly by political correctness and partly by religion) to accept that the differences between human beings cannot extend to include psychological factors, including intelligence.
I do not object to any of that. I do not hold that there is any connection between race or IQ. My remark was the set up for my conclusion i.e. the more one focuses on whiteness, whether for far-right or far-left purposes, the less intelligent I deem that woeldview to be. In fact come to think of it, I am not even sure that I believe in IQ.
 

Emily Davison

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For all the labels (from Chinese to Celt) you mention, 99.9% of the human DNA is the same.

"Whiteness" as a race label is inane, since there are at lest 100 different human skin tones.

For me, it should be always clear that when we are using a label like "White" or "German", it is just a convenient label and not a sharply-defined category, so hasty generalisations are to be avoided.
All of this is going to be moot anyway when we all interbreed. It will save a fortune in fake tan.

And I think that's what I said. All of us are just human.
 

Hillmanhunter1

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I do not object to any of that. I do not hold that there is any connection between race or IQ. My remark was the set up for my conclusion i.e. the more one focuses on whiteness, whether for far-right or far-left purposes, the less intelligent I deem that woeldview to be. In fact come to think of it, I am not even sure that I believe in IQ.
It is undeniably true to say that what IQ tests are most useful for is measuring the ability of the subjects to do IQ tests.

However there is clearly such a thing as intelligence, or perhaps more accurately, dimensions of intelligence, and some of these can be measured (either directly or by proxy).

You may not hold that there is any connection between race or IQ, but do you think it is a valid field of enquiry for science?
 

owedtojoy

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It is undeniably true to say that what IQ tests are most useful for is measuring the ability of the subjects to do IQ tests.

However there is clearly such a thing as intelligence, or perhaps more accurately, dimensions of intelligence, and some of these can be measured (either directly or by proxy).

You may not hold that there is any connection between race or IQ, but do you think it is a valid field of enquiry for science?
IQ is a good predictor of academic success, which is a good predictor of career success.

But that may make IQ a correlation, not a cause. As a metric, its importance is exaggerated.

You good take the children of high IQ Nobel Prizewinners, but if he or she do not get the proper nutrition in early childhood, the genes may make little difference. Environmental factors do play a role, to what degree can be disputed.

And high IQ does not imply good decision-making, The decision to invade Iraq, usually considered the biggest political error of recent times, was made by high-IQ, academically brilliant, successful men and women. The human ability for error and self-deception does not respect IQ.
 

parentheses

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IQ is a good predictor of academic success, which is a good predictor of career success.

But that may make IQ a correlation, not a cause. As a metric, its importance is exaggerated.

You good take the children of high IQ Nobel Prizewinners, but if he or she do not get the proper nutrition in early childhood, the genes may make little difference. Environmental factors do play a role, to what degree can be disputed.

And high IQ does not imply good decision-making, The decision to invade Iraq, usually considered the biggest political error of recent times, was made by high-IQ, academically brilliant, successful men and women. The human ability for error and self-deception does not respect IQ.
There have to be very strong doubts that GW Bush was a man of high IQ.
 

The OD

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A lot of Western Jews if you saw them on a street one would consider them White. Polls in the US show almost all of them self identify as White. As for why this is: there are also some light skinned people in the Middle East alongside dark skinned people. Intermarriage and conversions are also likely to have been a factor in this. Of course some Jews have stereotypical semitic nasal features too but many do not.
Jesus but you are one dumb cúnt.

I mean it's not like you don't access to an entire repository of human knowledge at your disposal so I reckon the above was deliberate you clown.
 

benroe

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The vast majority of people couldn't give a crap about skin colour the only people who care are actual racists and white progressives who need to be able to call their detractors ,racist and coloured progressives who want retribution.
 

The OD

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The vast majority of people couldn't give a crap about skin colour the only people who care are actual racists and white progressives who need to be able to call their detractors ,racist and coloured progressives who want retribution.
1576160292273.jpeg
 


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