What is your most left wing opinion and most right wing opinion?



Trainwreck

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Identifying issues as 'left' or 'right' is part of our problem right now. For some reason unknown to me, right-wingers have decided that action on climate change is 'left' and that denial is 'right' and act accordingly. Of course the mountains of research on global warming are neither left nor right but simply fact.
That isn't a fair representation.


One can look at the issue and not agree with the Alarmist claims and predictions on that issue. That isn't any "wing" at all.
 

Spirit Of Newgrange

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my most leftwing opinions : religion is bunk, everybody deserves a fair chance to make the most of their life, one person one vote, the rights of people are over the rights of corporations or investors, peaceful protest and non violence are good, separate Church and State

my rightwing opinions : lazy feckers deserve nothing, your kids are your financial responsibility ( not the taxpayers) , burglars deserve to be challenged in my house, do not tax inheritance, the worse off worker should be wealthier than the best 'shirker', put a massive cap on immigration from the developing world, be tough on crime with nasty punishments and empowered police, the welfare State is out of control, islam is not welcome in Europe, halal food is cruel to animals, do not let scroungers live in nice neighbourhoods nor send their kids to the better schools, better pension rights for those who paid taxes all their lives.

Right wing all the way
 

Pizza Man

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Left wing opinion: criminals and tax thieves shouldn't be allowed to run for election /to sit in our national parliament.

Right wing opinion: people only appreciate what they pay for, so the State should stop giving them freebies.
 
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Trainwreck

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The problem with this is that everyone is bringing their own personal priors on what "Left wing" and "Right wing" means. You really need to clarify that before you state your views.


For me, "Left Wing" and "Right Wing" are essentially different flavours of collectivism, which is different to more commonly held opinion that Left=Socialist and Right=Capitalist; which is of course the world view as constructed by Marx. It is a Socialist construction.


So, I would contrast my views on what I believe is the more accurate and sensible spectrum: collectivist versus liberal.


Example:

My collectivist view: centrally provided and funded essential universal healthcare.

My Liberal view: a free market for health insurance and private health services unfettered by government regulation.



My collectivist view: centrally provided and funded education to secondary level. A strictly limited centrally provided and tertiary education (academic) system.

My Liberal view: a free market for tertiary and secondary and primary education, unfettered by government regulation.
 

making waves

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But you should be able to determine what you believe is a living wage? And you should be free to seek it elsewhere if any prospective employer, or the government don't have the same view as you about what "living wage" you want should be.
Society will democratically decide what is a living wage.

In capitalist society the 'market' dictates wages with a constant class struggle between employer (with the active support of the state) and worker over working conditions and wage rates.

In a democratically planned socialised economy - where no one has a vested interested in financially screwing another human being - wage rates will be democratically determined based on need and not profit.

At a certain point in time society will evolve so that 'wages' (or more specifically 'currency') will no longer be a component of society.
 

making waves

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So how does your system deal with lazy and feckless incompetents and how does it reward really brilliant workers?

In the latter case, those who work harder and smarter and are way more productive. (Assumes said productivity is in the general interest of society).
'Lazy and feckless incompetents' will not receive any of society's benefits - but the reality is that 'lazy and feckless incompetents' are a manifestation of the alienation from society generated by the exploitation of capitalism.

And your assumption is that people only work for financial reward - many people (in fact most people) are altruistic and only focus on financial matters because they are forced to by capitalism and the class nature of society. In a socialised society people will work for the benefit of society - not for financial gain.

Apart from making waves (marxist views) and former wesleyan (psychopath), everyone else seems to be a national socialist.
That's settled then.
And proving a point - most people really do care about their fellow human beings - it is the nature of society, the dog-eat-dog world of capitalism that inhibits their ability to work in the interests of other people.
 

Trainwreck

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Society will democratically decide what is a living wage.

In capitalist society the 'market' dictates wages with a constant class struggle between employer (with the active support of the state) and worker over working conditions and wage rates.

In a democratically planned socialised economy - where no one has a vested interested in financially screwing another human being - wage rates will be democratically determined based on need and not profit.

At a certain point in time society will evolve so that 'wages' (or more specifically 'currency') will no longer be a component of society.

You are still skirting the question.



Neither you, nor I know what "society would decide". But let's say, society decide a "living wage" is €5 per hour.


What do you say then? Answer my question. Would you want the personal freedom to be able to search around to find an employer willing to pay you more than that?
 

making waves

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The problem with this is that everyone is bringing their own personal priors on what "Left wing" and "Right wing" means. You really need to clarify that before you state your views.
Left-wing = opposition to capitalist exploitation and support for a society where human beings work on the basis of mutual respect and cooperation.

Right-wing = support for the exploitative nature of capitalism and a disregard for people who stand in your way.

The majority of people just want a normal life, caring for their family and contributing to society - unfortunately capitalism (and the right-wingers) inhibit their ability to do this.
 

making waves

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This doesn't even make any sense. Did you even finish school?
Trainwreck cannot get out of the 'right-wing capitalist money trumps all' mindset.

Money - or to be more specific - financial transactions - are a product of a class based society - it is not necessary in a society that does not have one social class exploiting another.
 

Trainwreck

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Left-wing = opposition to capitalist exploitation and support for a society where human beings work on the basis of mutual respect and cooperation.

Right-wing = support for the exploitative nature of capitalism and a disregard for people who stand in your way.

The majority of people just want a normal life, caring for their family and contributing to society - unfortunately capitalism (and the right-wingers) inhibit their ability to do this.
OK, so you didn't finish school.


Print this out, frame it and take another look at it in 30 years. Trust me you will laugh out loud.
 

bokuden

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This doesn't even make any sense. Did you even finish school?
It makes a lot of sense. It's happening even now to an extent. A lot of people are going cashless and are using cedit to pay for things: i.e notional, non existent money based on the promise to repay in a future date.
 

JimmyFoley

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It makes a lot of sense. It's happening even now to an extent. A lot of people are going cashless and are using debt to pay for things: i.e notional, non existent money that the promise to repay in a future date.
Ah, here. Is your mortgage 'notional'?
 

making waves

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You are still skirting the question.



Neither you, nor I know what "society would decide". But let's say, society decide a "living wage" is €5 per hour.


What do you say then? Answer my question. Would you want the personal freedom to be able to search around to find an employer willing to pay you more than that?
There is more than enough wealth in the world to provide every single human being with a home, a job, free healthcare, education, transport, communications etc., enough food on the table, leisure time and all the other things that make life worth living. The problem is that most of the wealth is concentrated in the hands of 1% of the population who exploit the remaining 99% of the population for financial gain.

In a democratically planned socialised economy the interaction between employer and worker would not be based on financial matters - such matters would be democratically decided by society at large - it would be base on whether you want to work in a particular industry or workplace.
 

making waves

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OK, so you didn't finish school.


Print this out, frame it and take another look at it in 30 years. Trust me you will laugh out loud.
I have been fighting for it for more than 35 years - and will continue to do so for another 35 years if I live that long.

This is what I have framed on my wall -

Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression, and violence and enjoy it to the full.
 

bokuden

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Ah, here. Is your mortgage 'notional'?
For a lot of people who were ripped off by banks it was indeed notional, but people are also using credit for day to day living. In effect they are rolling over debt as are countries. The bottom line is that there is more money now then there is currency, by a huge extent and this is growing.
 


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