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What mechanism can the UK use to renegotiate EU membership?


44percent

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I am asking a different question to the previous thread on the UK and the EU. As I understand it the EU is formed on binding international treaties. If the UK is trying to renegotiate terms the whole community is entitled to renegotiate those treaties and we are looking at referenda for years to come. Equally, the membership could take the line that these are signed up to and the only option for the UK is the exit door. What mechanism allows Cameron to think a renegotiation is possible?
 


ruserious

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The same way Greenland left. There is precedent.
 

Analyzer

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Maybe Money ?

The EU is running out of it. And England is the second largest net donor after Germany.

Will the Brussels nonsense factory issue a decree to grow more money from the magic money tree ?
 

Catalpast

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I am asking a different question to the previous thread on the UK and the EU. As I understand it the EU is formed on binding international treaties. If the UK is trying to renegotiate terms the whole community is entitled to renegotiate those treaties and we are looking at referenda for years to come. Equally, the membership could take the line that these are signed up to and the only option for the UK is the exit door. What mechanism allows Cameron to think a renegotiation is possible?
They could leave tomorrow if they wanted and Cameron could get it past Parliament

That's not going to happen of course

But Britain is one of the more powerful members and holds a lot of clout

There will be some serious horse trading done

- but the end result will be

- that Britain will in effect be an Associate member state of the EU
 

cabledude

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I thought this whole 'In or Out' carry on was just political posturing by a PM with an eye to the threat from the UKIP. Does the UK really want to leave the EU?
 

ibis

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I thought this whole 'In or Out' carry on was just political posturing by a PM with an eye to the threat from the UKIP. Does the UK really want to leave the EU?
The government certainly doesn't, the UK public almost certainly does, at this point. As to mechanism, yes, Cameron has to persuade the rest of the members to either reopen the treaties, or to agree a series of derogations/opt-outs for the UK.
 

Catalpast

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I thought this whole 'In or Out' carry on was just political posturing by a PM with an eye to the threat from the UKIP. Does the UK really want to leave the EU?
Many of them do

- realistically they are not going to walk out and close the door behind them

But they will not accept much more from the the Brussels Junta either...

They want a New Deal
 

44percent

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The government certainly doesn't, the UK public almost certainly does, at this point. As to mechanism, yes, Cameron has to persuade the rest of the members to either reopen the treaties, or to agree a series of derogations/opt-outs for the UK.
Ok. So if the treaties are opened, they are opened to all.
 

Lempo

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The government certainly doesn't, the UK public almost certainly does, at this point. As to mechanism, yes, Cameron has to persuade the rest of the members to either reopen the treaties, or to agree a series of derogations/opt-outs for the UK.
... while the popular opinion in some of the other countries is that "Yes, let's start the renegating from that rebate of yours."

We're living in interesting times.
 

Analyzer

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The UK could threaten to propose Gordon Calamity Brown as an EU Commisar.

That should bring them to compromise very quickly. Though I suppose the British people would be disgusted, at seeing Mr. Boom&Bust back in power over anything bigger than a henhouse.
 

Con Gallagher

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The same way De Valera renegotiated the Treaty. Take every opportunity, as they arise, to undo the most obnoxious measures. He did not restrict himself to the strict terms of the rules set by our enemies. The fictional Collins's movie summed up his attitude: the best way to defeat the enemy is to act like they don't exist.

An alternative is that Cameron needs to start with a blank piece of paper, rather than the existing treaties, and ask what powers/duties/rights/money should he pool with 26 other countries in order to advance the interests of the British people.

(If he does start with the treaties, the bit about "ever closer union" should be first on the hitlist, then the budget, common foreign policy, common defence, social policy, anything to do with civil law justice systems, the CAP, while keeping the trade links, co-operation on mutually beneficial measures).
 

patfitzbally

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... while the popular opinion in some of the other countries is that "Yes, let's start the renegating from that rebate of yours."

We're living in interesting times.
you'r right,whilst most countries are net beneficeries of eu cash (incl ourselves) I can see why the brits are sick of doling out to other eu states whilst suffering a recession themselves.he who pays the piper..................
 

44percent

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The same way De Valera renegotiated the Treaty. Take every opportunity, as they arise, to undo the most obnoxious measures. He did not restrict himself to the strict terms of the rules set by our enemies. The fictional Collins's movie summed up his attitude: the best way to defeat the enemy is to act like they don't exist.

An alternative is that Cameron needs to start with a blank piece of paper, rather than the existing treaties, and ask what powers/duties/rights/money should he pool with 26 other countries in order to advance the interests of the British people.

(If he does start with the treaties, the bit about "ever closer union" should be first on the hitlist, then the budget, common foreign policy, common defence, social policy, anything to do with civil law justice systems, the CAP, while keeping the trade links, co-operation on mutually beneficial measures).
Yes but Dev had the Cumann na nGaedhael achievement (with South Africa Canada Australia) of the Statute of Westminster as a legal basis for that approach. If Cameron goes down that road what legal basis has he to rescind binding treaties?
 

blokesbloke

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There is always a way. Whether there is precedent or not is irrelevant - just because something hasn't been done before doesn't mean it can never be done.

It would be extremely difficult, but they can but try and we'll see what happens.

TBH I can't see the Tories winning the next election anyway, so I think it'll all be a moot point.
 

Frank Galton

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It has to be Cameron getting Maggie's handbag and getting special derogations and opt-outs. They'll never get unanamity on treaty changes.
 

Lempo

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TBH I can't see the Tories winning the next election anyway, so I think it'll all be a moot point.
The best time to promise them they'll get something they really really want after you re-elect them.
 

wilting

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There are plenty of negotiations ahead regarding restructuring the Eurozone, the best option for the UK would be to try to insert Union reforms for non-Eurozone states into those negotiations, along with other Member States, rather than simply squealing for special treatment. They would need to do the diplomatic groundwork and get it on the agenda first, rather than just bringing it up out of nowhere and messing up a whole summit like last time.

Alternatively, some or all Eurozone states should just form a new federal democratic state that is in and of itself a member of the Union, taking over a lot of the functions of the Union, and allowing the Union itself to be streamlined. Not to mention bringing democracy and sorting out the Eurozone. Everybody wins. THAT would make far too much sense though, I'm afraid.
 

ibis

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Ok. So if the treaties are opened, they are opened to all.
Yes - so it's possible for some countries to support the UK's position because they would like things renegotiated, and it's equally possible for countries to oppose it because they oppose what might be asked for in addition to the UK's requests, or to oppose it because they don't want to have to get the result through their own parliament.
 

an modh coinniolach

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The UK could threaten to propose Gordon Calamity Brown as an EU Commisar.

That should bring them to compromise very quickly. Though I suppose the British people would be disgusted, at seeing Mr. Boom&Bust back in power over anything bigger than a henhouse.
Look at the quality of commissioner we send them... Gordon would fit right in.
 

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