What our German friends are saying about the Irish problem.

Grumpy Jack

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Interesting range of views on the Irish/euro crisis from German newspaper editorials today.

They don't all blame us. And at least one suggest the Irish govt may have got the nod from Frankfurt or Brussels for the disastrous banking support policies.

The World from Berlin: 'The Irish Should Stop Bashing Those Who Want to Help Them' - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News - International

Süddeutsche Zeitung

"The Greeks and the Irish should stop bashing those who want to help them. ... Europe's politicians should make it clear that there is no alternative to hard austerity measures. And then they have to try to design Merkel's crisis mechanism so that is assures investors of two things: First that they bear long-term risks, just like in every other business. And secondly, that the euro states are prepared to contribute to any rescue plans. And it is clear that Germany would bear the greatest burden in that case."
The World from Berlin: 'The Irish Should Stop Bashing Those Who Want to Help Them' - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News - International

Handelsblatt

"Secondly, it is not just the Irish banks that are dramatically undercapitalized, but also the British and German banks. Things wouldn't be going so bad for the government in Dublin today if they had allowed one or two bank insolvencies. However, bankrupt Irish banks would have dragged other financial institutions into the abyss with them. British, German and French banks would have had to face losses in the triple-billion figures in Ireland."

"So Ireland had to safeguard its banks with state guarantees, with the active help of the ECB. In that way the Irish, British and German banks, and their shareholders, were able to pass off the debt problems onto the Irish state. But the taxpayers of this small country are hopelessly overwhelmed by this."

"Ireland's European partners have known about this, approved of it and perhaps even encouraged it. And the euro zone will soon be presented with the bill. Ireland will definitely need loans from the €750 billion rescue fund -- regardless of whether it applies for help this week or later. That will only remove Ireland temporarily from the firing line of the markets. And the euro zone is still not saved. The markets could then fully concentrate on Portugal and Spain."

"The shareholders in the banks will be pleased to be protected from the losses. But for the euro zone's taxpayers this is all a catastrophe."
Financial Times Deutschland

"The EU has once again sold a short-term PR offensive as a solution to a problem and has been caught out. The fact is that Greece, Ireland and probably Portugal are insolvent. And another fact is that the euro zone is strongly connected. German banks, insurance companies and funds are among Ireland's biggest creditors. And if the German government is now pushing Ireland to apply to the rescue fund as soon as possible, then it is out of pure self interest. They want to protect German banks from losses."

"And everyone, the Irish and the Germans, are pushing the bill onto the taxpayers. The markets recognize that the taxpayers are unable to cope with this bill and this has lead to rational corrections to the value of state bonds."
Am I hopeful in thinking that our Teutonic cousins won't take horrible retribution on the Irish people for the folly and ineptitude of the buffoons elected to govern us?
 


johnfás

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Indeed. But of course Germany will always wish to construct a deal so it slightly favours them and we should seek to construct a deal which will slightly favour us - and we should make no apologies for doing so. That is the nature of being a State.
 

Franzoni

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Horrible retribution...? you think they vill zend in ze panzers and ze stormtropers...?...:)

Don't think there is much thay can do..as others have pointed out if we decline their help were holding a financial hand grenade..we will die but we will take a few of them with us...

It's in everyones interest to sort this mess out...i wouldn't mind seeing a few of our politicos up in some sort of EU court for reckless endangerment of a country and it's citizens....
 

firefly123

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Only a moron would blame an individual for the behaviour of a state. But there are a lot of morons out there I suppose.
 

Cassandra Syndrome

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I am all for constructive criticism, but the last people I would listen to for a telling off on moral hazzard are a bunch of bitter, spoilt krauts whose forefathers nearly completely annihilated and / or assimilated the entire world on a number of occasions in the past 100 years.
 

Grumpy Jack

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Horrible retribution...? you think they vill zend in ze panzers and ze stormtropers...?...:)

Don't think there is much thay can do..as others have pointed out if we decline their help were holding a financial hand grenade..we will die but we will take a few of them with us...

It's in everyones interest to sort this mess out...i wouldn't mind seeing a few of our politicos up in some sort of EU court for reckless endangerment of a country and it's citizens....
I was thinking more about our Corporation Tax and the Baltic cold shoulder we could expect for the next few years.

Pat Cox was on both RTE and Newstalk today and he said this FF govt has squandered the all the goodwill in Europe, and particularly in Berlin, that successive Irish governments have built up over four decades. He's a consummate Brussels insider and Europhile so I would take his view pretty seriously.
 

Green eyed monster

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This bit below makes my blood boil.

It's the nonchalant way he says it (Irish taxpayer shouldered burdens of European banks), what are we the effin SERFS of Europe!?

Secondly, it is not just the Irish banks that are dramatically undercapitalized, but also the British and German banks. Things wouldn't be going so bad for the government in Dublin today if they had allowed one or two bank insolvencies. However, bankrupt Irish banks would have dragged other financial institutions into the abyss with them. British, German and French banks would have had to face losses in the triple-billion figures in Ireland."

"So Ireland had to safeguard its banks with state guarantees, with the active help of the ECB. In that way the Irish, British and German banks, and their shareholders, were able to pass off the debt problems onto the Irish state. But the taxpayers of this small country are hopelessly overwhelmed by this
 

Scipio

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I am all for constructive criticism, but the last people I would listen to for a telling off on moral hazzard are a bunch of bitter, spoilt krauts whose forefathers nearly completely annihilated and / or assimilated the entire world on a number of occasions in the past 100 years.
:rolleyes:
 

Cassandra Syndrome

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"they should bear long term risks?"

Long term like what? 80 years? Thats 1930. Did they do anything wrong in the 16 years after that?

Give me a break.
 

Green eyed monster

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Accross Europe I think the image of Ireland has been badly mudded by the whole affair
That is the media spin of it, being cleverly spun by Europe, in reality we are being screwed and taking up the slack of their responsibility for this mess also. The creation of the mess itself was a collaborative effort with Ireland shouldering most of the price of it. In that sense yes our image has been muddied - their 'impression' of us is as their idiots.
 

Franzoni

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I was thinking more about our Corporation Tax and the Baltic cold shoulder we could expect for the next few years.

Pat Cox was on both RTE and Newstalk today and he said this FF govt has squandered the all the goodwill in Europe, and particularly in Berlin, that successive Irish governments have built up over four decades. He's a consummate Brussels insider and Europhile so I would take his view pretty seriously.
But people from all across the irish political spectrum and the media told us our corporation tax was safe...surely your not suggesting they all got it wrong...?....:D

Your probably right that our name in the EU is not much higher than a snakes belly,but as most of the money came from German pension funds and banks if we default their left high and dry with a major balck hole themselves...
 

owedtojoy

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Indeed. But of course Germany will always wish to construct a deal so it slightly favours them and we should seek to construct a deal which will slightly favour us - and we should make no apologies for doing so. That is the nature of being a State.
Indeed. As General de Gaulle said: "States don't have friends. They just have Interests."
 

slx

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You'd be amazed at how moronic people can be when something is whipped up by the tabloids
 

Franzoni

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This bit below makes my blood boil.

It's the nonchalant way he says it (Irish taxpayer shouldered burdens of European banks), what are we the effin SERFS of Europe!?
In a word...yes... the Germans and the French hold most of smaller nations in contempt and it is my view that we will become the cheap labour for the EU's richer countries if we bow down... a bit like the way the yanks have the hispanics....
 

Grumpy Jack

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But people from all across the irish political spectrum and the media told us our corporation tax was safe...surely your not suggesting they all got it wrong...?....:D

Your probably right that our name in the EU is not much higher than a snakes belly,but as most of the money came from German pension funds and banks if we default their left high and dry with a major balck hole themselves...
I would be worried about Cowen and Lenihan caving in on it given their track record over the last few years.

It cannot be taken away from us - but it can be given up by a spineless Irish government. That is my fear.

A friend of mine is in Paris on business this week. He speaks fluent French and can normally charm the knickers off a nun. Our Gallic cousins usually love him.

He's finding it decidedly chilly at the minute - and it ain't the Parisian weather.
 

Sham96

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I was thinking more about our Corporation Tax and the Baltic cold shoulder we could expect for the next few years.

Pat Cox was on both RTE and Newstalk today and he said this FF govt has squandered the all the goodwill in Europe, and particularly in Berlin, that successive Irish governments have built up over four decades. He's a consummate Brussels insider and Europhile so I would take his view pretty seriously.
I stated that on another thread earlier. I was talking to friends in the Hague (Den haag) this morning and our name is mud. With a capital M. All because of FF and their cronies. 40 plus years of goodwill down the swanee.
 

Franzoni

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Both you lads are probably right..i worked outside rotterdam myself for a while in the early 90's and i can't imagine the people i knew there being too happy with the chance this could spread and they find themselves in the mess were in.....
 

Gadfly

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"Things wouldn't be going so bad for the government in Dublin today if they had allowed one or two bank insolvencies. However, bankrupt Irish banks would have dragged other financial institutions into the abyss with them."

Handelsblatt got that right.
 


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