What percentage of men have committed sexual assaults on women?

Congalltee

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The answer is nobody knows since there are so few formal complaints to the police, fewer prosecutions, and of the 205 which went to trial, 35 ended with a conviction.

How can the figure be calculated?

Number of prosecution and convictions for rape 567:
Rape conviction rate offers no protection | Irish Examiner


Number of victims:

"In 2001 a major nationwide survey, which interviewed 3120 adults in depth, was undertaken on behalf of the Dublin Rape Crisis Centre (The SAVI Report, McGee et al, 2002, The Liffey Press). This research discovered that 13% of Irish women and 5 % of Irish men have experienced rape or attempted rape over their lifetime. One in three women and one in five men have experienced contact sexual abuse as a child or adult, or in some cases both."

Facts and Information About Sexual Violence and Rape Dublin Rape Crisis Centre


Admitted Intent:
30% of men would commit sexual assault of they could get away with it (13% would commit rape)
The ugly truth about sexual assault: More men admit to it if you don’t call it rape - Salon.com

Number of Trump supporters:

'One man's sexual assault is another man's flirting' - Republican supporters remain loyal to Donald Trump | Irish Examiner
SAVI report

" Girls: One in five women (20.4 per cent) reported experiencing contact sexual abuse in childhood with a further one in ten (10.0 per cent) reporting non-contact sexual abuse. In over a quarter of cases of contact abuse (i.e. 5.6 per cent of all girls), the abuse involved penetrative sex — either vaginal, anal or oral sex.
• Boys: One in six men (16.2 per cent) reported experiencing contact sexual abuse in childhood with a further one in four- teen (7.4 per cent) reporting non-contact sexual abuse. In one of every six cases of contact abuse (i.e. 2.7 per cent of all boys), the abuse involved penetrative sex — either anal or oral sex.
Adult Sexual Assault (defined as sexual violence against women or men aged 17 years and above)
• Women: One in five women (20.4 per cent) reported experi- encing contact sexual assault as adults with a further one in twenty (5.1 per cent) reporting unwanted non-contact sexual experiences. Over a quarter of cases of contact abuse in adult- hood (i.e. 6.1 per cent of all women) involved penetrative sex.
• Men: One in ten men (9.7 per cent) reported experiencing con- tact sexual assault as adults with a further 2.7 per cent report- ing unwanted non-contact sexual experiences. One in ten cases of contact abuse in adulthood (i.e. 0.9 per cent of all men) in- volved penetrative sex.
Lifetime Experience of Sexual Abuse and Assault
• Women: More than four in ten (42 per cent) of women re- ported some form of sexual abuse or assault in their lifetime. The most serious form of abuse, penetrative abuse, was ex- perienced by 10 per cent of women. Attempted penetration or contact abuse was experienced by 21 per cent, with a further 10 per cent experiencing non-contact abuse.
• Men: Over a quarter of men (28 per cent) reported some form of sexual abuse or assault in their lifetime. Penetrative abuse was experienced by 3 per cent of men. Attempted penetration or contact abuse was experienced by 18 per cent, with a fur- ther 7 per cent experiencing non-contact abuse."

Discussion:
1. Why do so many men deny there is a serious problem?
2. What can be done to reduce the incidence of sexual assault?
3. Is education (eg reaching consent in schools), cultural change (zero social tolerance of "locker talk") or changes in the law required (eg a total ban on examination of prior sexual history or the very draconian lower standard of proof or breaching civil liberties like reversing the burden of proof where sex is admitted)?
4. Is it better that one innocent man is acquitted than 9 guilty go free?
 


freewillie

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The answer is nobody knows since there are so few formal complaints to the police, fewer prosecutions, and of the 205 which went to trial, 35 ended with a conviction.

How can the figure be calculated?

Number of prosecution and convictions for rape 567:
Rape conviction rate offers no protection | Irish Examiner


Number of victims:

"In 2001 a major nationwide survey, which interviewed 3120 adults in depth, was undertaken on behalf of the Dublin Rape Crisis Centre (The SAVI Report, McGee et al, 2002, The Liffey Press). This research discovered that 13% of Irish women and 5 % of Irish men have experienced rape or attempted rape over their lifetime. One in three women and one in five men have experienced contact sexual abuse as a child or adult, or in some cases both."

Facts and Information About Sexual Violence and Rape Dublin Rape Crisis Centre


Admitted Intent:
30% of men would commit sexual assault of they could get away with it (13% would commit rape)
The ugly truth about sexual assault: More men admit to it if you don’t call it rape - Salon.com

Number of Trump supporters:

'One man's sexual assault is another man's flirting' - Republican supporters remain loyal to Donald Trump | Irish Examiner
SAVI report

" Girls: One in five women (20.4 per cent) reported experiencing contact sexual abuse in childhood with a further one in ten (10.0 per cent) reporting non-contact sexual abuse. In over a quarter of cases of contact abuse (i.e. 5.6 per cent of all girls), the abuse involved penetrative sex — either vaginal, anal or oral sex.
• Boys: One in six men (16.2 per cent) reported experiencing contact sexual abuse in childhood with a further one in four- teen (7.4 per cent) reporting non-contact sexual abuse. In one of every six cases of contact abuse (i.e. 2.7 per cent of all boys), the abuse involved penetrative sex — either anal or oral sex.
Adult Sexual Assault (defined as sexual violence against women or men aged 17 years and above)
• Women: One in five women (20.4 per cent) reported experi- encing contact sexual assault as adults with a further one in twenty (5.1 per cent) reporting unwanted non-contact sexual experiences. Over a quarter of cases of contact abuse in adult- hood (i.e. 6.1 per cent of all women) involved penetrative sex.
• Men: One in ten men (9.7 per cent) reported experiencing con- tact sexual assault as adults with a further 2.7 per cent report- ing unwanted non-contact sexual experiences. One in ten cases of contact abuse in adulthood (i.e. 0.9 per cent of all men) in- volved penetrative sex.
Lifetime Experience of Sexual Abuse and Assault
• Women: More than four in ten (42 per cent) of women re- ported some form of sexual abuse or assault in their lifetime. The most serious form of abuse, penetrative abuse, was ex- perienced by 10 per cent of women. Attempted penetration or contact abuse was experienced by 21 per cent, with a further 10 per cent experiencing non-contact abuse.
• Men: Over a quarter of men (28 per cent) reported some form of sexual abuse or assault in their lifetime. Penetrative abuse was experienced by 3 per cent of men. Attempted penetration or contact abuse was experienced by 18 per cent, with a fur- ther 7 per cent experiencing non-contact abuse."

Discussion:
1. Why do so many men deny there is a serious problem?
2. What can be done to reduce the incidence of sexual assault?
3. Is education (eg reaching consent in schools), cultural change (zero social tolerance of "locker talk") or changes in the law required (eg a total ban on examination of prior sexual history or the very draconian lower standard of proof or breaching civil liberties like reversing the burden of proof where sex is admitted)?
4. Is it better that one innocent man is acquitted than 9 guilty go free?
Why dont you just give orders to shoot all men on sight?
 

GDPR

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Given that homos are between two and three per cent of population this really shows something is seriously twisted about their "community";

Men: Over a quarter of men (28 per cent) reported some form of sexual abuse or assault in their lifetime. Penetrative abuse was experienced by 3 per cent of men. Attempted penetration or contact abuse was experienced by 18 per cent, with a fur- ther 7 per cent experiencing non-contact abuse."

I would reckon that between 20 to 30 per cent of men have been involved in sexual assults of varying degrees of gravity. A lot if not most sexual assults go unreported. People are naturally, as far as you can use that word about fallen human nature, pretty nasty creatures when all is said and done.
 

Betson

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or breaching civil liberties like reversing the burden of proof where sex is admitted?
Certainly not the answer anyway , if effectively criminalizes the man in every single case of admitted sexual intercourse , how exactly do you prove that she did not withdraw consent before penetration etc , it is impossible to prove and only crazed fundamentalists would suggest such a measure.
 

Half Nelson

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All surveys should carry a warning - "this survey may be misleading".

I recall a 'survey' about sexual assault in the 90s, which was quoted by all the usual suspects until the percentages became accepted fact. If I recall correctly, even our then Uachtaran quoted the figures.

It turned out that the respondents were, in fact, those who had bothered to reply to a questionnaire published in a popular magazine and amounted to only a few hundred. Can you see what might be wrong with that?

Those percentages have survived to this day as 'facts'.
 

Congalltee

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All surveys should carry a warning - "this survey may be misleading".

I recall a 'survey' about sexual assault in the 90s, which was quoted by all the usual suspects until the percentages became accepted fact. If I recall correctly, even our then Uachtaran quoted the figures.

It turned out that the respondents were, in fact, those who had bothered to reply to a questionnaire published in a popular magazine and amounted to only a few hundred. Can you see what might be wrong with that?

Those percentages have survived to this day as 'facts'.
What fault, if any, can be found with the SAVI methodology?

Study Population

Over 3,000 randomly selected Irish adults took part in the study (n = 3,118). This represented a 71 per cent participation rate of those invited. For a telephone survey, and on such a sensitive topic, this very high participation rate means that the findings can be taken as broadly representative of the general population in Ireland. The information available can therefore provide impor- tant and previously unavailable information on the extent and nature of sexual violence in Irish society.

http://www.drcc.ie/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/savi.pdf
 

GDPR

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All surveys should carry a warning - "this survey may be misleading".

I recall a 'survey' about sexual assault in the 90s, which was quoted by all the usual suspects until the percentages became accepted fact. If I recall correctly, even our then Uachtaran quoted the figures.

It turned out that the respondents were, in fact, those who had bothered to reply to a questionnaire published in a popular magazine and amounted to only a few hundred. Can you see what might be wrong with that?

Those percentages have survived to this day as 'facts'.
I know from personal experience that many women in my age group have suffered sexual assult. All women and girls should look upon any man as a potential rapist- that is just common sense. Do you have a link to this debunked survey?
 
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To take one specific of your excellent OP:

I spent many years in changing rooms. Sporting changing rooms where all the testerone of mano a mano conflict is on display.

Maybe I've been visiting the wrong ones, but I never ever heard the type of crap that Trump came out with.

OK, once. A guy on the team once casually announced that he was in the habit of rooting out his au pair's knickers from the laundry basket and, err, anointing them with his jizz. It was one of those moments when time seems to stand still. He registered the gaping jaws and the shock on our faces before saying that everyone does it; be honest.

The only rebuttal I could voice was that maybe some people do it but nobody tells the world of it.

Perhaps there is a difference between Ireland and the US. I certainly detected it on a night in California 20 years ago. It was in a place called Sunnyvale, just outside San Fran.

I was there for a few months working on a project. Conveniently single and enjoying life. There was a girl in a group I regularly met up with who was keener on me than I was on her. There was a guy who was keener on her than she was on him. I was shortly due to leave the place and she wanted to, err, moves things on with me. In our regular watering-hole she suggested that we all go to the Kit Kat Club. I wasn't keen; in California you can't have bare tits and alcohol in the same room. They serve "near beer" in these places. The crowd were up for it, though, so off we went. Her intent was to get me in the mood for some lurvin' or something like that.

So we went.

We're at the bar, chatting away and one of the performers hears my Irish accent and the thing kicks off. She will be performing in ten minutes and I must be seated at the sucken area to watch her performance. I've no choice. It was the most humiliating five minutes of my life. People were watching me while I watched a nubile woman gyrating on my face, demonstrating her absence of pubes while I jadedly draped dollar bills on the brass rail. I was far from turned on and was fuming when I returned to the crowd.

This is where I can make my long-winded point.

When I returned to the bar the guy who seemed to think I was his competitor was exultant. He seemed to think that if I'd been turned on by the display he could gain some higher moral ground. That's when things turned odd.

"So, did you enjoy looking at her puuuuussssy? Tell us all about it."

I was completely unaare of one fact when I answered him - and the answer wasn't essentially virtuous, by the way. The fact I was unawre of was that the stripper was standing behind me as I answered.

"I can't speak of her pussy because I was looking into her eyes all the time (true); she is really a rather beautiful woman and I would prefer to speak of her overall attributes rather than merely her cùnt."

Now this was said not as a paeon to her but as a means of putting him down; I really was truly disgusted at his gutter talk.

The performer was thrlled and openly gave me her number for a meeting on a personal and not a professional basis. Game set and match, if you're of an Alan Partridge frame of mind, but one thing stuck in my mind. That was the tenor of the conversation among a mixed audience. He'd openly and somewhat sneeringly asked me about this woman's pussy and what was the level of my enjoyment at seeing it. He'd asked me to describe it. Teenage talk, but maybe acceptable in some circles and in some contexts.

I'd place the guy in his mid thirties. Single. Well-built. Actually quite handsome and in a good job.

That evening sticks in my mind for some reason. Everything about it (including my very accidental wooing of and adult performer) was nothing which jibed with my previous experiences. It was all very jarring, and the "locker-room" stuff really stands out.

I should point out that I am in no way a prude on matters sexual; after my separation there was no cavity in Dublin or abroad which was safe for several years (all always consenual, of course), but this incident made me wonder at the time whether we speak in different vocabularies across the water.

BTW, I did contact the stripper and treated her to an excellent lunch in a micro-brewery the next day. That was the extent of our congress.
 

Congalltee

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In relation to locker room talk, there was a US sportsman who pointed out most bragging about sex was about women throwing themselves at players, rather than the reverse.
 

redhead

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Discussion:
1. Why do so many men deny there is a serious problem?
2. What can be done to reduce the incidence of sexual assault?
3. Is education (eg reaching consent in schools), cultural change (zero social tolerance of "locker talk") or changes in the law required (eg a total ban on examination of prior sexual history or the very draconian lower standard of proof or breaching civil liberties like reversing the burden of proof where sex is admitted)?
4. Is it better that one innocent man is acquitted than 9 guilty go free?
1. I don't think a lot of men do deny there is a serious problem, for those who do I would suspect it's a little too close to home. Also men are victims of sexual assaults too.

2. Focusing on the victims is not necessarily helpful in identifying measures to reduce the incident of sexual assault. For one thing, it seems to tacitly imply some kind of responsibility on the part of the victim. What needs to be looked at is the breakdown of those who commit sexual assaults, in terms of age group, occupation, social status etc. to find common elements.

3. Yes, yes (although I don't know how you would police it) and no, absolutely not.

4. Yes. That's a no brainer and is at the core of a fair system of justice. Failures in convictions are not down to the law, they are down to those operating within it.
 

stopdoingstuff

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"

Discussion:
1. Why do so many men deny there is a serious problem?
2. What can be done to reduce the incidence of sexual assault?
3. Is education (eg reaching consent in schools), cultural change (zero social tolerance of "locker talk") or changes in the law required (eg a total ban on examination of prior sexual history or the very draconian lower standard of proof or breaching civil liberties like reversing the burden of proof where sex is admitted)?
4. Is it better that one innocent man is acquitted than 9 guilty go free?
I was going to wind you up but you put a lot of effort into the post and therefore deserve a considered answer to your questions.

1. Why do so many men deny there is a serious problem?

Because for the overwhelming majority of us, being physically violent towards a woman is just beyond the pale. Whenever this comes up in discussions with my friends, most of us are truly mystified that anyone would do that to another another person. You really need to grasp how much we look down on people who attack women. This leads to a feeling of being constantly blamed for stuff we didn't individually do, and this is even more so the case when ideology is thrown into the ring.

2. What can be done to reduce the incidence of sexual assault?

I don't know about Ireland but certainly in other jurisdictions, there has been a huge reduction in the sexual assault numbers.

https://www.rainn.org/statistics/scope-problem



This may not be the case in Ireland or other parts of Europe. If we are serious about reducing sexual assault, then we need to be more open about the demographic profile of who commits the assaults, and this means measuring crimes by ethnicity, religion and other social categories. This is very unlikely to happen.

3. Is education (eg reaching consent in schools), cultural change (zero social tolerance of "locker talk") or changes in the law required (eg a total ban on examination of prior sexual history or the very draconian lower standard of proof or breaching civil liberties like reversing the burden of proof where sex is admitted)?

I don't know about teaching consent just in isolation - what % of rapists didn't know that they were raping someone? There needs to be a general anti-violence curriculum and consent needs to slot into that in a natural way. If it is just done in isolation, it politicises the issue.

Centrally planned, state-managed cultural change is a bit mad, because for a start there is nothing wrong with locker room talk. Sexual assault is basically the work of a dedicated minority, and does not warrant dreaming up even more ways of surveilling and harassing innocent people. There is however a more organic kind of cultural change that has been taking over the last 30 years or so, and some of the results can be seen from the above graph. Without giving any power to insane feminists or other political groups, the rate of sexual assault and rape in the US has fallen 74% since 1993, from a rate of 4.3 assaults per 1000 people in 1993, to 1.1 per 1000 in 2014. I suspect that this is down to just getting the message out.

Lowering the standard of proof in any case is nuts, flat out crazy. If we do it for rape, then why not for murder or for any crime?

4. Is it better that one innocent man is acquitted than 9 guilty go free?

What is better is to make decisions based on facts and evidence, without the presumption of guilt and innocence based on one's gender or other identity marker. If you abandon that, then what is left other than mob rule and trial by media? In any case, the question as it is put contains some assumptions we are not entitled to make, namely that somehow a situation whereby we can condemn people without evidence would be somehow better than the situation as it currently stands.
 

stopdoingstuff

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I know from personal experience that many women in my age group have suffered sexual assult. All women and girls should look upon any man as a potential rapist- that is just common sense. Do you have a link to this debunked survey?
Now that makes sense to me. Women should be a lot more careful. This is not to justify assault or anything like that, any more than telling someone to lock their car door somehow justifies theft.
 
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As far as the dicussion goes it is important to distinguish between sexual assault and rape.

The former is in a very very nebulous category. Obviously, for those who have suffered it there is nothing nebulous about it, but at the same time it seems that there is a degree of greyness both in law and in human perceptions about what constitutes it. It should be obvious to all, but it seems that it isn't.
 

livingstone

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Discussion:
1. Why do so many men deny there is a serious problem?
Plenty men don't. Of those that do, I suspect there are a variety of reasons.

For some - a small minority, I hope - there is a self-interest in that they enjoy 'casual' sexual assault themselves. The sort of non-consensual groping you might get in a nightclub etc. Admitting what sexual assault is requires admitting their own particular role.

For others, there is a distorted sense of what it means to be masculine. These are the types who never really grew up beyond giggling at the back of biology class.

For others still, I think there is genuinely just a lack of awareness or knowledge. People who might never grope a woman without her consent themselves, but who might just genuinely not know either how common that is, or indeed, how women perceive it, so it becomes easier to minimise it.

2. What can be done to reduce the incidence of sexual assault?
The first should be a recognition of what it is. We're brought up thinking of sexual assault as being just one step below rape, and thinking of rape only in terms of the woman walking home, being dragged in the bushes and forced to have sex, usually with other physical violence involved. Plenty threads on this site illustrate that that view prevails, and that rapes that involve pre-existing relationships, or where the woman doesn't have the capacity to refuse etc are still not considered real rape. It starts from the top - if you don't consider rape to be rape, you won't consider sexual assault to be sexual assault. But it's also circular - if you tolerate low level, casual sexual assault, then more serious sexual assault becomes harder to combat. And if it's harder to combat serious sexual assault it becomes harder to combat rape.

3. Is education (eg reaching consent in schools),
Yes

cultural change (zero social tolerance of "locker talk")
I don't know about zero tolerance - I think people can talk explicitly about people they're attracted to with people they know without it necessarily meaning any inclination towards sexual assault. Cultural change certainly needed though, which I think is an offshoot of education.

or changes in the law required (eg a total ban on examination of prior sexual history or the very draconian lower standard of proof or breaching civil liberties like reversing the burden of proof where sex is admitted)?
No, I don't think so. The issue of past sexual history should certainly be much rarer, and the law could play a part there. But I don't think it should be totally out of bounds for a defence. Ultimately a sound justice system needs to allow a defendant significant leeway in persuading a jury to acquit. I certainly don't agree with reversal or lowering the burden of proof.

4. Is it better that one innocent man is acquitted than 9 guilty go free?
I think this is a bit of a red herring. A justice system should be designed to ensure defendants get a fair hearing and have every opportunity to defend themselves. The presumption of innocence is central to the justice system and should remain so.

There is certainly a problem with both underreporting and underconviction for sexual offences, but the answer ought not be to reduce the rights of individuals accused of crimes.
 

GDPR

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Because the crime itself is shrouded in myths and legends, probably going back to the days when rape was a property offence, akin to trespass. One such myth, the ‘real rape’ myth, states that most rapes involve a stranger using a weapon attacking a woman violently at night in an isolated, outdoor area, and that women sustain serious injuries from these attacks.

By contrast, the majority of reported rape offences to take the UK as an example (70%) are committed by people known to the victim (e.g., domestic and acquaintance rapes),and occurred inside a residence, with most victims sustaining no physical injuries from the attack.

Rape is also unique among crimes of violence in that there is a defence of consent. You cannot consent in law to someone beating you up or torturing you.

This makes it "very close to home" in all senses. There is psychological resistance to considering the offence dispassionately and there is an extra hurdle to overcome in proving the elements of the offence.

As a society we have difficulties with sex in general, much more so than with violence or economic crimes. It still has a huge mystique, which leads to all sorts of cognitive dissonance and false ideas going well beyond what constitutes "consent".

It may sound trite, but what we need is to open a can of "grow-up".
 

redhead

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Plenty men don't. Of those that do, I suspect there are a variety of reasons.

For some - a small minority, I hope - there is a self-interest in that they enjoy 'casual' sexual assault themselves. The sort of non-consensual groping you might get in a nightclub etc. Admitting what sexual assault is requires admitting their own particular role.

For others, there is a distorted sense of what it means to be masculine. These are the types who never really grew up beyond giggling at the back of biology class.

For others still, I think there is genuinely just a lack of awareness or knowledge. People who might never grope a woman without her consent themselves, but who might just genuinely not know either how common that is, or indeed, how women perceive it, so it becomes easier to minimise it.



The first should be a recognition of what it is. We're brought up thinking of sexual assault as being just one step below rape, and thinking of rape only in terms of the woman walking home, being dragged in the bushes and forced to have sex, usually with other physical violence involved. Plenty threads on this site illustrate that that view prevails, and that rapes that involve pre-existing relationships, or where the woman doesn't have the capacity to refuse etc are still not considered real rape. It starts from the top - if you don't consider rape to be rape, you won't consider sexual assault to be sexual assault. But it's also circular - if you tolerate low level, casual sexual assault, then more serious sexual assault becomes harder to combat. And if it's harder to combat serious sexual assault it becomes harder to combat rape.



Yes



I don't know about zero tolerance - I think people can talk explicitly about people they're attracted to with people they know without it necessarily meaning any inclination towards sexual assault. Cultural change certainly needed though, which I think is an offshoot of education.



No, I don't think so. The issue of past sexual history should certainly be much rarer, and the law could play a part there. But I don't think it should be totally out of bounds for a defence. Ultimately a sound justice system needs to allow a defendant significant leeway in persuading a jury to acquit. I certainly don't agree with reversal or lowering the burden of proof.



I think this is a bit of a red herring. A justice system should be designed to ensure defendants get a fair hearing and have every opportunity to defend themselves. The presumption of innocence is central to the justice system and should remain so.

There is certainly a problem with both underreporting and underconviction for sexual offences, but the answer ought not be to reduce the rights of individuals accused of crimes.
This.
 

Watcher2

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I know from personal experience that many women in my age group have suffered sexual assult. All women and girls should look upon any man as a potential rapist- that is just common sense. Do you have a link to this debunked survey?
Jesus:shock::roll:
 

truthisfree

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I know from personal experience that many women in my age group have suffered sexual assult. All women and girls should look upon any man as a potential rapist- that is just common sense. Do you have a link to this debunked survey?
*Speechless* :shock2:
 


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