What should be done about the country club consultants putting private payers over medical card holders?

raspberry tea

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What should be done about the country club consultants putting private payers over medical card holders?

I was watching prime time investigates on the problem we have in the hospitals. And Im just asking the question as I see no other thread on it anywhere on Pie.. Is it right that the country club consultants are doing more hours and diverting more time and energy to the private patient than public patients? This is why there is a backlog.. Not only that some of these well minted consultants are simply not putting in the hours , leaving it to management and other hard-working consultants to pick up the flak. One woman had to wait 2 years for a cattaract to be fixed on her eye lens. She ended up selling all her gold and up to Dublin to get it done - Not everyone is so lucky they can do that. In many hospitals they give priority to private payers, which I can understand as they do pay dearly for the service. I think there should be a seperation of public and private, as there seems to be a conflict of interest. I think the whole lot needs an overhaul but we must not end up like the UK with welfare and healthcare tourists who do not pay a cent into the system looking for bespoke care. Im asking Is it a fair system as it is now? How do we deal with these individuals who are in clear breach of their 2008 contracts?:evil:
 


Uganda

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I was watching prime time investigates on the problem we have in the hospitals. And Im just asking the question as I see no other thread on it anywhere on Pie.. Is it right that the country club consultants are doing more hours and diverting more time and energy to the private patient than public patients? This is why there is a backlog.. Not only that some of these well minted consultants are simply not putting in the hours , leaving it to management and other hard-working consultants to pick up the flak. One woman had to wait 2 years for a cattaract to be fixed on her eye lens. She ended up selling all her gold and up to Dublin to get it done - Not everyone is so lucky they can do that. In many hospitals they give priority to private payers, which I can understand as they do pay dearly for the service. I think there should be a seperation of public and private, as there seems to be a conflict of interest. I think the whole lot needs an overhaul but we must not end up like the UK with welfare and healthcare tourists who do not pay a cent into the system looking for bespoke care. Im asking Is it a fair system as it is now? How do we deal with these individuals who are in clear breach of their 2008 contracts?:evil:
We deal with it by employing mangers who wont tolerate paying for a service which isn't provided.

Not by employing people who are called manger, paid as manager but who don't manage.

How many senior managers would survive in the private sector while paying expensive people for a service they don't deliver?

Not a,lot.
 

HouseMD

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If Irish consultants are so well-paid, why is there a recruitment crisis?
 

darkhorse

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People including consultants are entitled to work for who they chose
The answer is to attract more consultants into the public system.
 

raspberry tea

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Junior doctors are often left on their own, trainees often who obtained their qualifications in third world countries, who are just not ready to tackle the wards alone without good mentoring and guidance for their first years on the job. These unscrupulous consultants leave them to it, to pick up the flak and the busiest times on their own. While they are off making appointments with private patients on their public hours contracts. How is this fair and just, how is this equitable? Currently 800 consultants are suing the state, over pay conditions - management cannot control these consultants and there is a weak system in place to reprimand them, they don't even have clock in cards and are rarely held to account for their actions or lack of them!
 

raspberry tea

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People including consultants are entitled to work for who they chose
The answer is to attract more consultants into the public system.
So you are saying when the consultants are required to do their public hours for that week, they should just hop in their merc and drive across town to do their private consultations and operations? Because that is currently what is happening.
 

raspberry tea

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Just to bump this as I want to add something which I think is relevant, often these consultants with private practices who are seeing private patients on their public hours rota, usually ask for cash in hand, I have experience of this sort of practice first-hand, and they don't like cheques or credit card payments - Let's also while we are at it look at all the lost money that has not been accounted for as I'm sure they wouldn't dare declare half of it!
 

darkhorse

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So you are saying when the consultants are required to do their public hours for that week, they should just hop in their merc and drive across town to do their private consultations and operations? Because that is currently what is happening.

No
They should fulfill their contractual obligations in full
But should be free to work for themselves in their spare time if they wish - and help more patients
 

raspberry tea

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No
They should fulfill their contractual obligations in full
But should be free to work for themselves in their spare time if they wish - and help more patients
At present, they are not doing that, they are working their private hours on public hours, seeing private patients for appointments when they could be in doing vital operations for medical card holders, as they have to pay tax on whatever they get paid from the medical, they prefer the fruitful and more cushy numbers of seeing private patients in their private practices, [on public hours] where they even make more money on top of the VHI payments etc, by asking for cash in hand when you first see them, I have had experience of this and didn't like it one bit! I think what needs to happen is a separation of private and public treatments nobody who is working privately should also be seeing public patients and vice versa, the blurring of the lines needs to stop as it promotes a conflict of interest. Either you work public or private, not both, as it is clear it doesn't work. Also they shouldn't use this as an opportunity to push their badly qualified doctors or trainees onto the public wards, there should be an equal amount of fully qualified and more senior doctors in both the public and private sector, a way to make sure this happens is if everyone pays a flat rate for healthcare to fund this.
 

ellie08

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At present, they are not doing that, they are working their private hours on public hours, seeing private patients for appointments when they could be in doing vital operations for medical card holders, as they have to pay tax on whatever they get paid from the medical, they prefer the fruitful and more cushy numbers of seeing private patients in their private practices, [on public hours] where they even make more money on top of the VHI payments etc, by asking for cash in hand when you first see them, I have had experience of this and didn't like it one bit! I think what needs to happen is a separation of private and public treatments nobody who is working privately should also be seeing public patients and vice versa, the blurring of the lines needs to stop as it promotes a conflict of interest. Either you work public or private, not both, as it is clear it doesn't work. Also they shouldn't use this as an opportunity to push their badly qualified doctors or trainees onto the public wards, there should be an equal amount of fully qualified and more senior doctors in both the public and private sector, a way to make sure this happens is if everyone pays a flat rate for healthcare to fund this.
Do they pay the hospitals anything for using the theatres for their private patients, or are they allowed use them for free?
 

raspberry tea

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Do they pay the hospitals anything for using the theatres for their private patients, or are they allowed use them for free?
They can use the public a & e's as far as I know for public patients and also the theatres, no problem I know people on the VHI who were treated in public hospitals,they need to separate out public and private and make sure it is done in an equitable manner.
 

ellie08

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They can use the public a & e's as far as I know for public patients and also the theatres, no problem I know people on the VHI who were treated in public hospitals,they need to separate out public and private and make sure it is done in an equitable manner.
Perhaps they should be charged for using the hospitals facilities for their own private patients. The patients VHI pays the hospital costs but given the enormous sums they charge patients they should therefore pay fees for the use of public facilities.
 

nakatomi

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I was watching prime time investigates on the problem we have in the hospitals. And Im just asking the question as I see no other thread on it anywhere on Pie.. Is it right that the country club consultants are doing more hours and diverting more time and energy to the private patient than public patients? This is why there is a backlog.. Not only that some of these well minted consultants are simply not putting in the hours , leaving it to management and other hard-working consultants to pick up the flak. One woman had to wait 2 years for a cattaract to be fixed on her eye lens. She ended up selling all her gold and up to Dublin to get it done - Not everyone is so lucky they can do that. In many hospitals they give priority to private payers, which I can understand as they do pay dearly for the service. I think there should be a seperation of public and private, as there seems to be a conflict of interest. I think the whole lot needs an overhaul but we must not end up like the UK with welfare and healthcare tourists who do not pay a cent into the system looking for bespoke care. Im asking Is it a fair system as it is now? How do we deal with these individuals who are in clear breach of their 2008 contracts?:evil:
Not true, most surgeons have lists cancelled because there are not enough beds in the system , there are some that are clearly gaming the system and need to be exposed.
There are plenty more that work far longer than their contract requires on public patients , and are not paid for this - but you won't find Prime time investigates following these consultants.
 

myrak

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I don't think it's as simple as it seems. We keep hearing that there aren't enough theaters in use. What use is the surgeon in the hospital if he can't operate? Of course he/she can see public patients but the shortage of theaters means that the lists won't get any shorter. It's noticeable as a public patient that the majority of private consultants are white while if you are a public patient you are more likely to be seen by a darker skinned doctor. That isn't a criticism of those doctors, merely a personal observation. If the consultant is good enough to do the job I don't care what colour or gender they are.
Too many time we have heard consultants say they are unable to operate due to lack of theatres and the staff to work in them.
Tired of the regular red herrings being put about to distract from a system which refuses to acknowledge an increased population and deteriorating services.
Time to look at management priorities rather than front line failings that are in fact due to management failings.
 

raspberry tea

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Perhaps they should be charged for using the hospitals facilities for their own private patients. The patients VHI pays the hospital costs but given the enormous sums they charge patients they should therefore pay fees for the use of public facilities.
Private health insurance customers pay enough they should not be further penalised,but I tend to agree they shouldn't be using public facilities at all.
 

ellie08

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Private health insurance customers pay enough they should not be further penalised,but I tend to agree they shouldn't be using public facilities at all.
That's what I'm saying. If these people had to pay for the use of the hospital facilities then premiums would come down (well in a decent society that is what would happen)
 

raspberry tea

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Too many time we have heard consultants say they are unable to operate due to lack of theatres and the staff to work in them.
Tired of the regular red herrings being put about to distract from a system which refuses to acknowledge an increased population and deteriorating services.
Time to look at management priorities rather than front line failings that are in fact due to management failings.
There is a culture problem in the hospitals where management blame the consultants and the consultants blame management,however after watching primetime investigates, one of many consultants who were followed were observed driving across Dublin to their private practices - on their public hours, to pick up cushy more fruitful numbers,ie more cash for them off VHI payers,they can blame management all they like, the fact is they are doing this, not the managers. Managers cannot reprimand them as there is a weak system in place, the consultants are not even required to clock in and on the programme, rampant absenteeism was also observed of the consultants, and this absenteeism was done on public hours!
 
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nakatomi

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Junior doctors are often left on their own, trainees often who obtained their qualifications in third world countries, who are just not ready to tackle the wards alone without good mentoring and guidance for their first years on the job. These unscrupulous consultants leave them to it, to pick up the flak and the busiest times on their own. While they are off making appointments with private patients on their public hours contracts. How is this fair and just, how is this equitable? Currently 800 consultants are suing the state, over pay conditions - management cannot control these consultants and there is a weak system in place to reprimand them, they don't even have clock in cards and are rarely held to account for their actions or lack of them!
I think a lot of consultants would welcome that, but then a lot of them would exceed the european working time directive plus the HSE would be obliged to pay every hour worked.
 


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