What should the European Union be replaced with?

Drogheda445

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A question to P.ie's resident Eurosceptics (and there are many of you).

The EU it would seem is under severe attack from all sides, across the continent. It come to represent something very different to what its predecessor the EEC represented. European unity was seen as vital to any permanent post-war settlement, in order to put an end to the natural state of violent animosity and bitter rivalries that had prevailed in Europe since its earliest days. In historical terms (at least in European historical terms), it is a very recent phenomenon (more recent still if you insist on including Eastern Europe in these parameters).

The EU may be ill conceived and may seem to cause more harm than good, but surely the idea of European federalism cannot wither away? The memory of a divided Europe still looms over us (despite what some more short-sighted people seem come out with these days, ignorantly and arrogantly assuming that history can never repeat itself). Do Eurosceptics envisage a replacement for the EU to ensure some sort of cooperation between the European community?

We need to be blunt; from a purely pragmatic perspective, a lack of European unity has proven to be utterly ruinous for the whole continent throughout history. You may roll your eyes whenever references are made to the 1930s, but the Europeans who committed the atrocities of World War II were just like us; we haven't suddenly become wiser or more mentally sound, we are the same Europeans in every other aspect. Of course the exact chain of events are unlikely to take place again, but if enough anger is generated and tensions resurrected something terrible will take place down the line. Yugoslavia proved that even a supposedly unified and reasonably coherent-looking multi-ethnic structure (one that also went through the horrors WW2) could collapse into a bloodbath. We can't be so selfish as to only take into account our momentary pet grievances without thinking of the long-term consequences; those our grandchildren and great-grandchildren will have to deal with.

So if you are in favour of reforming or even abolishing the EU altogether, that's entirely valid given it's current flawed system. But what exactly do you hope to replace it with, given that the previous set up was patently disastrous for the whole of Europe? Also, surely it would be completely irrational to end European unity in a world that demands a more strong and coordinated approach to solve global issues?
 


RasherHash

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The EEC.
 

The Field Marshal

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+100000000000000.

The idea of European political unity was never on the cards being idiotic and senseless from the get go.
 

Analyzer

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How about respect ?
 

midlander12

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A question to P.ie's resident Eurosceptics (and there are many of you).

The EU it would seem is under severe attack from all sides, across the continent. It come to represent something very different to what its predecessor the EEC represented. European unity was seen as vital to any permanent post-war settlement, in order to put an end to the natural state of violent animosity and bitter rivalries that had prevailed in Europe since its earliest days. In historical terms (at least in European historical terms), it is a very recent phenomenon (more recent still if you insist on including Eastern Europe in these parameters).

The EU may be ill conceived and may seem to cause more harm than good, but surely the idea of European federalism cannot wither away? The memory of a divided Europe still looms over us (despite what some more short-sighted people seem come out with these days, ignorantly and arrogantly assuming that history can never repeat itself). Do Eurosceptics envisage a replacement for the EU to ensure some sort of cooperation between the European community?

We need to be blunt; from a purely pragmatic perspective, a lack of European unity has proven to be utterly ruinous for the whole continent throughout history. You may roll your eyes whenever references are made to the 1930s, but the Europeans who committed the atrocities of World War II were just like us; we haven't suddenly become wiser or more mentally sound, we are the same Europeans in every other aspect. Of course the exact chain of events are unlikely to take place again, but if enough anger is generated and tensions resurrected something terrible will take place down the line. Yugoslavia proved that even a supposedly unified and reasonably coherent-looking multi-ethnic structure (one that also went through the horrors WW2) could collapse into a bloodbath. We can't be so selfish as to only take into account our momentary pet grievances without thinking of the long-term consequences; those our grandchildren and great-grandchildren will have to deal with.

So if you are in favour of reforming or even abolishing the EU altogether, that's entirely valid given it's current flawed system. But what exactly do you hope to replace it with, given that the previous set up was patently disastrous for the whole of Europe? Also, surely it would be completely irrational to end European unity in a world that demands a more strong and coordinated approach to solve global issues?
Something alone the lines of the free trade zone that existed after 1987. Repeal Maastricht and all subsequent treaties and scrap the euro (if Germany and a few other countries want to maintain a more exclusive single currency, leave them to it). Restore immigration control to member-states. As for a 'strong and coordinated approach to solve global issues', the current EU doesn't have that so I don't see how some looser free trade zone or customs union could do much worse.
 

gleeful

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Unelected Eurocrats are very much a feature of the EU today.
They are overseen by the EU parliament. The EEC was far more undemocratic than the EU, yet had all the features Brexiteers say they hate - free movement, red tape, eurocrats...
 

Deadlock

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The EU needs to evolve

The nations of the Eurozone need to confederate - as in the case of Switzerland. The Eurozone confederation can then replace those individual nations in the EU. That organisation can then continue as is or regress to the EEC as some here seem to wish.
 
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gleeful

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The nations of the Eurozone need to confederate - as in the case of Switzerland. The Eurozone confederation can then replace those individual nations in the EU. That organisation can continue as is or regress to the EEC as some here seem to wish.
The Swiss confederation is far more federal in structure than the EU is. You are proposing further integration.
 

blokesbloke

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Why does it have to be replaced with anything?

Plenty of independent countries around the world manage perfectly well without being in such a bloc - including some European ones.
 

RasherHash

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Yeah it was that thing where we could veto anything that moved.
Exactly, we need to undo the Lisbon and Nice treaties and get back our sovereignity that was taken from us by the fascists who overturned our democratic vote.
 

VHF

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Love these ever constant social study questions which are frequently posted on this website.
 

gleeful

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Why does it have to be replaced with anything?

Plenty of independent countries around the world manage perfectly well without being in such a bloc - including some European ones.
So go back to the time when there was no single market and exporting required mounds of paperwork? Why are Brexiteers so pro-red tape?
 

midlander12

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I am proposing a treaty of confederation for the Eurozone - not for the entire EU.
Oh right, only the Eurozone, 18 or so countries, varying from Germany to Greece to Lithuania. I think not. It might work for Germany, Austria, Finland, Holland etc but I doubt even they would agree on it.
 


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