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What the Taoiseach SHOULD have said in response to the Magdalene report.


corelli

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 13, 2007
Messages
4,478
It's no news that I voted FG/Labour at the election and would be known as a FG supporter, though not a member of the Party. It's also probably known that I don't particularly rate the FG leadership, given that, to anyone fair minded, Enda Kenny is a bit intellectually limited, given his role. I don't mean to denigrate him. He works like a dog and has good intentions. However, I have said for a long long time that he is very badly advised and I think we saw first hand yesterday how that manifests itself. He clearly listened to his lawyers far too much and did not, again, trust his instinct, which is naturally kind and sympathetic, to be fair.

So, I took literally 5 minutes and composed the following, which I don't claim to be wonderful, but a vast improvement on the waffle he came out with yesterday. Anybody think it is something he could not have said??



""I thank Deputy McDonald for her question.

Ceann Comhairle,
Today has seen the publication of yet another report into the unmitigated disaster that was the interaction of Church and State in this country since the latters foundation. Another report into the dark recesses of a Republic that was, and in some ways still is, only so in name. Another report into the maltreatment meted out by the Church, to the vulnerable, in the name of “morality” and which was aided and abetted, in no small degree, by the State.

A connivance of moral pygmies.
The filth of moral omniscience.

Another occasion where the head of Government has to come into this house and apologise, on behalf of all the people of this Country, for their own failings.

I must inform the house that, the report having only been circulated at Cabinet today, I am not in a position to, nor should I, commence apportioning specific blame, save to say that from my briefing there would seem to be blame enough to go around. The State who referred these women in many instances, who then no matter how they were referred, failed in their duty to ensure that all the citizens of this Republic are treated equally. The church who, as Dr. McAlesse notes, perhaps thought they were doing some service, but in fact did enormous harm. The individual Gardai who acted as unofficial enforcers of the Nuns rule. The social workers, the Parish Priest, etc etc. Moreover, the ordinary member of the public who thought these women deserved nothing better. There is not, I think we will all find, any strata of society who are free from blame when this report is fully considered.

There will be a full, and frank, debate in this house in two weeks time when we have all had opportunity to consider the contents of this detailed report. I hope each and every Deputy will give rigorous attention to this report prior to that and come back to this house ready to deal with this most sensitive and important issue.

I note from public comments and private discussions with Government that the main wish of those incarcerated in these institutions, and there are less than one thousand persons remaining, is an apology for the wrong done to them.

I do that now on behalf of all the peoples of this Republic, then and now. For what happened you then and for taking so long to attempt to rectify that wrong.

I, WE, are profoundly sorry.

The details of how we, as a Government, might assist bringing a sense of closure and peace to those incarcerated have obviously yet to be worked out. I hope that this house can discuss that matter when we debate the report in full in two weeks time.

To add much more to my remarks at this stage would be merely rhetoric and add nothing to what should be the shocking impact of what our society did to these women. However, I do say to the “maggies”, you were and are not the “fallen”, you have nothing to be ashamed of, on the contrary, the rest of us have. You were and are not “unclean”, we are. You were and are not “destitute”, we abandoned you.

Thank you Ceann Comhairle. ""
 


harshreality

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 14, 2011
Messages
2,688
I found it to be a very disappointing response from him but will not blame it solely on legal advice.

A legal advisor would suggest ways to frame a response but would stop short on putting words in his mouth.

The response seemed to have been of his own concoction as it sounded in keeping with his inability to speak on every other matter that he attempts to address.
 

corelli

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 13, 2007
Messages
4,478
I found it to be a very disappointing response from him but will not blame it solely on legal advice.

A legal advisor would suggest ways to frame a response but would stop short on putting words in his mouth.

The response seemed to have been of his own concoction as it sounded in keeping with his inability to speak on every other matter that he attempts to address.
I know, that is why I stated he was, again, poorly advised.
 
B

Boggle

If it wasn't in such bad taste I'd link to the LibDems "Sorry" song.
 

EmmettTCorcoran

Active member
Joined
Jan 28, 2013
Messages
115
I believe a "Sorry" would say it all. But like other posters- I'd believe he's on strict instructions from the Attorney General not to admit any thing. But I believe something must be said, and I believe Enda does want to- no doubt he regrets what happened to these poor women.
 

lying eyes

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 27, 2009
Messages
4,417
Enda is the leader, he wants to be leader, therefore he should show some leadership. All he has shown is that he is spineless and yellow. Apology Enda - apology Enda.....After 38 years show us that you have something .........
 

dancl2000

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 17, 2011
Messages
517
i dont see the point of creating a 1000 page report onto this tragedy if nobody reads and considers it before apologising. this is basically asking for an apology without knowing what you're apologising for.

basic elements of an apology
- [the govt] understands what we did wrong
- we apologise for that
- here's what we are going to do so it never happens again

each part is as important as every other part. how can anyone expect in a space of 24 horus that 1000 pages can be read, understood and measures drawn up to make sure it never happens again

if this is peoples attitude why just ask for an empty apology and not bother with the investigation or corrective measures
 

Eire1976

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 20, 2010
Messages
14,152
It's no news that I voted FG/Labour at the election and would be known as a FG supporter, though not a member of the Party. It's also probably known that I don't particularly rate the FG leadership, given that, to anyone fair minded, Enda Kenny is a bit intellectually limited, given his role. I don't mean to denigrate him. He works like a dog and has good intentions. However, I have said for a long long time that he is very badly advised and I think we saw first hand yesterday how that manifests itself. He clearly listened to his lawyers far too much and did not, again, trust his instinct, which is naturally kind and sympathetic, to be fair.

So, I took literally 5 minutes and composed the following, which I don't claim to be wonderful, but a vast improvement on the waffle he came out with yesterday. Anybody think it is something he could not have said??



""I thank Deputy McDonald for her question.

Ceann Comhairle,
Today has seen the publication of yet another report into the unmitigated disaster that was the interaction of Church and State in this country since the latters foundation. Another report into the dark recesses of a Republic that was, and in some ways still is, only so in name. Another report into the maltreatment meted out by the Church, to the vulnerable, in the name of “morality” and which was aided and abetted, in no small degree, by the State.

A connivance of moral pygmies.
The filth of moral omniscience.

Another occasion where the head of Government has to come into this house and apologise, on behalf of all the people of this Country, for their own failings.

I must inform the house that, the report having only been circulated at Cabinet today, I am not in a position to, nor should I, commence apportioning specific blame, save to say that from my briefing there would seem to be blame enough to go around. The State who referred these women in many instances, who then no matter how they were referred, failed in their duty to ensure that all the citizens of this Republic are treated equally. The church who, as Dr. McAlesse notes, perhaps thought they were doing some service, but in fact did enormous harm. The individual Gardai who acted as unofficial enforcers of the Nuns rule. The social workers, the Parish Priest, etc etc. Moreover, the ordinary member of the public who thought these women deserved nothing better. There is not, I think we will all find, any strata of society who are free from blame when this report is fully considered.

There will be a full, and frank, debate in this house in two weeks time when we have all had opportunity to consider the contents of this detailed report. I hope each and every Deputy will give rigorous attention to this report prior to that and come back to this house ready to deal with this most sensitive and important issue.

I note from public comments and private discussions with Government that the main wish of those incarcerated in these institutions, and there are less than one thousand persons remaining, is an apology for the wrong done to them.

I do that now on behalf of all the peoples of this Republic, then and now. For what happened you then and for taking so long to attempt to rectify that wrong.

I, WE, are profoundly sorry.

The details of how we, as a Government, might assist bringing a sense of closure and peace to those incarcerated have obviously yet to be worked out. I hope that this house can discuss that matter when we debate the report in full in two weeks time.

To add much more to my remarks at this stage would be merely rhetoric and add nothing to what should be the shocking impact of what our society did to these women. However, I do say to the “maggies”, you were and are not the “fallen”, you have nothing to be ashamed of, on the contrary, the rest of us have. You were and are not “unclean”, we are. You were and are not “destitute”, we abandoned you.

Thank you Ceann Comhairle. ""

The problem with the Irish is that everyone wants to be the boss.
 

Ed O'Leary

Active member
Joined
Jan 11, 2013
Messages
254
i dont see the point of creating a 1000 page report onto this tragedy if nobody reads and considers it before apologising. this is basically asking for an apology without knowing what you're apologising for.

basic elements of an apology
- [the govt] understands what we did wrong
- we apologise for that
- here's what we are going to do so it never happens again

each part is as important as every other part. how can anyone expect in a space of 24 horus that 1000 pages can be read, understood and measures drawn up to make sure it never happens again

if this is peoples attitude why just ask for an empty apology and not bother with the investigation or corrective measures
I agree with that - whats the problem with taking the 2 weeks to reflect and then come out with an apology and concrete actions that are going to be taken to improve and ameliorate the survivors situation............I give Kenny the benefit of the doubt now - but he better deliver in a forthnight.

Also - why the need for an immediate emotional response and apology? - is the princess Diana effect in action? - we need an emotional response immediately - are we that emotionally needy? - or is the media driving this?

sure , from a PR point of view - Kenny has missed a trick and the instant gratification media will hound him for it as it spoiled their day - likewise with the opportunist opposition.............but I'll give him the 2 weeks he's asked for and then judge the states response
 

White Horse

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 13, 2006
Messages
7,064
Kenny is trying to protect the tax payer from a series of legal settlements, not just from this case but in relation to other cases of neglect in Irish society in the part.
 

dancl2000

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 17, 2011
Messages
517
I agree with that - whats the problem with taking the 2 weeks to reflect and then come out with an apology and concrete actions that are going to be taken to improve and ameliorate the survivors situation............I give Kenny the benefit of the doubt now - but he better deliver in a forthnight.

Also - why the need for an immediate emotional response and apology? - is the princess Diana effect in action? - we need an emotional response immediately - are we that emotionally needy? - or is the media driving this?

sure , from a PR point of view - Kenny has missed a trick and the instant gratification media will hound him for it as it spoiled their day - likewise with the opportunist opposition.............but I'll give him the 2 weeks he's asked for and then judge the states response
i guess the other optino is the uk way, where the british cabinet gets access to reports weeks before it's published, and then you dont have this 2 week wait. (in which case i'm sure mary lou + other sensationlists would be screaming blue murder for immediate publication)

I think the irish way is better, if people would just accept that 2 weeks to wait for a proper response is not unreasonable (2 weeks is pretty responsive for a decision with national impact in my book)

But I agree, we knew it would be bad, now that's confirmed, so the response better be good
 

DizzyMitchell

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 3, 2011
Messages
546
It will come as no surprise to anyone who has ever attented a convent school that the nuns are abusive assh*les, frustrated lesbians for the most part. But what I do not understand is the families of these women. How could any father banish his daughter to such a fate, as thousands did? Had they no love, no intelligence, no sensitivity?

Nothing Enda Kenny can say will ever make this okay.
 

APettigrew92

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 4, 2011
Messages
2,717
Kenny is trying to protect the tax payer from a series of legal settlements, not just from this case but in relation to other cases of neglect in Irish society in the part.
Good God.

So the good, decent, tax-paying individuals who largely constitute those who were abused in something which was essentially state-sponsored and reinforced are somehow less important than those taxpayers who had the luxury of not being beaten half to death by some deranged folks with a superiority chip on their shoulder?

That's some progressive, egalitarian, Fine Gael-esque policies there alright. Wow.

Kenny backed down. It was a shrewd, purely political ruse in order to strip credibility from those who were stripped of everything else.

It is disgusting, it is abhorrent and in a strictly moral sense it is beyond comprehension.

Did you see Alan Shatter on the 6 O'Clock news last night? Dobson kept pushing the point about how it was a cop-out, and even Shatter looked physically disgusted with himself.

This will forever cement Kenny as a weak little man, unwilling to accept State responsibility for any harm that comes to those individuals who live within that State which is caused by the State.

Then again, their entire platform was "FF did this. That's not our fault. Vote us in so we can continue this legacy of ignorance."
 

captainwillard

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 2, 2010
Messages
2,897
It's no news that I voted FG/Labour at the election and would be known as a FG supporter, though not a member of the Party. It's also probably known that I don't particularly rate the FG leadership, given that, to anyone fair minded, Enda Kenny is a bit intellectually limited, given his role. I don't mean to denigrate him. He works like a dog and has good intentions. However, I have said for a long long time that he is very badly advised and I think we saw first hand yesterday how that manifests itself. He clearly listened to his lawyers far too much and did not, again, trust his instinct, which is naturally kind and sympathetic, to be fair.

So, I took literally 5 minutes and composed the following, which I don't claim to be wonderful, but a vast improvement on the waffle he came out with yesterday. Anybody think it is something he could not have said??



""I thank Deputy McDonald for her question.

Ceann Comhairle,
Today has seen the publication of yet another report into the unmitigated disaster that was the interaction of Church and State in this country since the latters foundation. Another report into the dark recesses of a Republic that was, and in some ways still is, only so in name. Another report into the maltreatment meted out by the Church, to the vulnerable, in the name of “morality” and which was aided and abetted, in no small degree, by the State.

A connivance of moral pygmies.
The filth of moral omniscience.

Another occasion where the head of Government has to come into this house and apologise, on behalf of all the people of this Country, for their own failings.

I must inform the house that, the report having only been circulated at Cabinet today, I am not in a position to, nor should I, commence apportioning specific blame, save to say that from my briefing there would seem to be blame enough to go around. The State who referred these women in many instances, who then no matter how they were referred, failed in their duty to ensure that all the citizens of this Republic are treated equally. The church who, as Dr. McAlesse notes, perhaps thought they were doing some service, but in fact did enormous harm. The individual Gardai who acted as unofficial enforcers of the Nuns rule. The social workers, the Parish Priest, etc etc. Moreover, the ordinary member of the public who thought these women deserved nothing better. There is not, I think we will all find, any strata of society who are free from blame when this report is fully considered.

There will be a full, and frank, debate in this house in two weeks time when we have all had opportunity to consider the contents of this detailed report. I hope each and every Deputy will give rigorous attention to this report prior to that and come back to this house ready to deal with this most sensitive and important issue.

I note from public comments and private discussions with Government that the main wish of those incarcerated in these institutions, and there are less than one thousand persons remaining, is an apology for the wrong done to them.

I do that now on behalf of all the peoples of this Republic, then and now. For what happened you then and for taking so long to attempt to rectify that wrong.

I, WE, are profoundly sorry.

The details of how we, as a Government, might assist bringing a sense of closure and peace to those incarcerated have obviously yet to be worked out. I hope that this house can discuss that matter when we debate the report in full in two weeks time.

To add much more to my remarks at this stage would be merely rhetoric and add nothing to what should be the shocking impact of what our society did to these women. However, I do say to the “maggies”, you were and are not the “fallen”, you have nothing to be ashamed of, on the contrary, the rest of us have. You were and are not “unclean”, we are. You were and are not “destitute”, we abandoned you.

Thank you Ceann Comhairle. ""
Wow, that speech could cost the taxpayer e500m if the abuse industry gets its hands on it.
 

SPN

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 2, 2004
Messages
16,891
Thursday is the day Gilmore is allowed pretend he is Taoiseach, so I'm expecting tomorrows Leaders' Questions to be one of the best ever.
 

Grey Area

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 15, 2011
Messages
4,855
Wow, that speech could cost the taxpayer e500m if the abuse industry gets its hands on it.
Defaming individual Gardai and Priests could add another e50m.

"The report shows that a great wrong was inflicted upon these people. I unreservedly apologise to all those who suffered and I hope that the publication of this report shows this Governments commitment to openness and transparency is sincere."
 

DizzyMitchell

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 3, 2011
Messages
546
I heard Justine McCarthy on the radio last night saying Irish people are good, decent people and that this constitutes a dichotomy between the actions of the State as the will of the citizens.

But clearly, we're not. We're evil, or enablers of evil where self-interest is at stake. That's why we elect the representatives we do. There's no other rational explanation for much of what goes on in our so-called society.
 

Grey Area

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 15, 2011
Messages
4,855
Thursday is the day Gilmore is allowed pretend he is Taoiseach, so I'm expecting tomorrows Leaders' Questions to be one of the best ever.
Gilmore will be delighted as the focus has now shifted to the PN issue.
 

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