What will be the "no" margin in DL in the abortion referendum

petaljam

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It's indicative of mismanagement.

Please quote the entire post on replying.
There were far worse indications of mismanagement than that. Why would a request from the patient that has no legal value be recorded?

I mean you agree that the fact that she asked for an abortion didn't make any difference to what the law says, right?

(I quoted what I was replying to, if you don't like that, tough.)
 


sadmal

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Yet that request wasn't recorded on her chart.

Her treatment was mismanaged.
Lots of things weren't recorded on her chart like her temperature rising which could have indicated that sepsis was present.

Of course even if those things had been recorded on her chart it would have needed a doctor to actually look at the chart.
 
D

Deleted member 45466

Lots of things weren't recorded on her chart like her temperature rising which could have indicated that sepsis was present.

Of course even if those things had been recorded on her chart it would have needed a doctor to actually look at the chart.
What's that got to do with the 8th?
 

Fats_Portnoy

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There were far worse indications of mismanagement than that. Why would a request from the patient that has no legal value be recorded?

I mean you agree that the fact that she asked for an abortion didn't make any difference to what the law says, right?

(I quoted what I was replying to, if you don't like that, tough.)
When it boils down there is nothing to corroborate that narrative. The abortionistas saw a wisp of smoke and cried inferno.
 
D

Deleted member 45466

Yeah, but she was refused one when she and her family requested it - you left out that bit. Maybe they knew more than the medics, as it turned out.
Just so we're clear:

in future, if families make a request to medical professional, it should be granted?
 
D

Deleted member 45466

Are you suggesting the request wasn't made?

Because we know it was.

And more to the point, it should have been legal to propose it without her having asked.
Before her life was in danger.


She was right, wasn't she? It was basic medicine.
If it was basic, then it should have been managed, right?

So, my question is, how did the 8th prevent sepsis management?

As has been pointed out - a zillion times - sepsis in pregnant women occurs and is managed, without the 8th causing any difficulty.

We know this.

So how did the 8th prevent the staff from performing basic medical practices?
 

midlander12

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Just so we're clear:

in future, if families make a request to medical professional, it should be granted?
If it's reasonable and in line with international practice, yes. Her health (and as we now know her life) was in serious danger from a condition related to her pregnancy. Her request for an abortion in these circumstances was perfectly reasonable. I believe the refusal to contemplate this option contaminated the entire course of her treatment.
 
D

Deleted member 45466

If it's reasonable and in line with international practice, yes. Her health (and as we now know her life) was in serious danger from a condition related to her pregnancy. Her request for an abortion in these circumstances was perfectly reasonable. I believe the refusal to contemplate this option contaminated the entire course of her treatment.
Link?
 

Fats_Portnoy

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If it was basic, then it should have been managed, right?

So, my question is, how did the 8th prevent sepsis management?

As has been pointed out - a zillion times - sepsis in pregnant women occurs and is managed, without the 8th causing any difficulty.

We know this.

So how did the 8th prevent the staff from performing basic medical practices?
Exactly, furthermore there was clarifying legislation in 2013 to make it doubly clear and updated medical council guidelines to make it triply clear.
 

Ellen Ripley

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There were far worse indications of mismanagement than that. Why would a request from the patient that has no legal value be recorded?

I mean you agree that the fact that she asked for an abortion didn't make any difference to what the law says, right?
That is so--and none of them had anything to do with the law, but everything to do with the shocking system in GUH.

Changes in a patient's physical demeanour and mental disposition are usually recorded, as is their requests-- not for their possible future legal significance, but their relevance to the progress of the treatment.
It wasn't in this case. It was certainly indicative of a lack of basic care. Infection should have been suspected at her admission to hospital.
"Woman killed by Ireland's abortion law" is a great soundbite, but that's all it is.


(I quoted what I was replying to, if you don't like that, tough.)
You could have done as everyone else does, simply bold the line you're responding to in a two-line post.
But hey--it's your site and you'll do as you damn well please. :D That's fine, it just displays your casual disregard for basic manners.
 

sadmal

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edwin

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You mean the Protection of Life During Pregnancy bill which was opposed by pro-life groups and most of Fianna Fail?
Only on the basis it legislated for suicidal ideation. The rest of it should have been codified decades ago.
 


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