What will Ireland be like by 2016?

Congalltee

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US opinion pollsters use a tracking measure of whether people think the country is moving in the right or wrong direction. Such a poll here, I believe, would show Ireland under Cowen is very much going down the tubes.

Basis for pessimism
1. Those who were in charge, in government, banks and media who oversaw or ignored the then looming economic crisis are still in charge.
2. The main opposition party is ineffective in opposing the status quo eg they pair for bertie, they have not raised that a minister has mislead the High Court and voted for the bank guarantee. It is no place for outsiders.
3. youth unemployment and emigration is a drain on optimism.
4.300,000 empty properties Blighting the country.
5. nama will drain about 30-40
Billion and transfer taxpayers money to international bondholders.
6. The cuts have come too late and are not based on common sense eg mccarthy report largely ignored and government does cuts never reform.
7.Public sector morale has never been lower, contrary to media opinion these affects a huge number of people.
8 People talk of 'most vulnerable in society' but the 1200 in Victorian asylums, 5000 actual homeless and tens of thousands of children of disfunctional parents are ignored by politicians and media.

Can anyone suggest a basis for optimism in the next 6 years? .
 


hopi watcher

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Hard to see any, though one would hope the electorate would have a bit more cop on - i wouldn't hold my breath:rolleyes:
Maybe Lenihan is deliberately screwing up just to get rid of Brian and he has a really good plan ready to put into immediate operation when he takes the reins. A long shot I know, but straws are better than nothing.
Of course there is also the other very strong possibilty and that is, like Harney, the bankers know where the bodies are buried too.
 

libertarian-right

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There is a complete lack of political will by all parties. The Irish system is a sham and is being protected by as the OP calls them insiders. If theres no reform from the top, we will see a stagnation for a decade.

Can over 400,000 people wait 10 years for a recovery? I dont think so, most will leave.
 

sauntersplash

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Can anyone suggest a basis for optimism in the next 6 years? .
The things you describe are apt, well put and a source of great tragedy for many, many people.

But we are alive. Where there is life, shelter, food and company there will always be room for optimism. Financial hardships can obviously devastate people's lives, and destroy their hope, if everything they've been working for is lost, but this is a time of reevaluation amongst the Irish people, as all hard times are. And I'm quite sure we will all discover hidden gems in our lives that we've overlooked for years.
 

absconded

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The things you describe are apt, well put and a source of great tragedy for many, many people.

But we are alive. Where there is life, shelter, food and company there will always be room for optimism. Financial hardships can obviously devastate .................. but this is a time of reevaluation amongst the Irish people, as all hard times are. And I'm quite sure we will all discover hidden gems in our lives that we've overlooked for years.
Food, I wouldn´t guarantee & hidden gems might be revolution.;)
 

sauntersplash

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2016 will see us picking up the pieces of a failed republic.
But there'll be a new one. A better one, a fairer one, a more just one, and another after that. This is the inescapable pattern of life. Growth and collapse, gradual improvement, transience.
 

libertarian-right

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I am quite sick of party politics. I would rather vote for each individual ministry, listen to the merits of each person going for each ministry, rather then Joe Bloggs down the street who is promoted councillor who has lambasted so many civil servants for his "clients" just to reach the electoral quota.
 

absconded

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US opinion pollsters use a tracking measure of whether people think the country is moving in the right or wrong direction. Such a poll here, I believe, would show Ireland under Cowen is very much going down the tubes.

Basis for pessimism
1. Those who were in charge, in government, banks and media who oversaw or ignored the then looming economic crisis are still in charge.
2. The main opposition party is ineffective in opposing the status quo eg they pair for bertie, they have not raised that a minister has mislead the High Court and voted for the bank guarantee. It is no place for outsiders.
3. youth unemployment and emigration is a drain on optimism.
4.300,000 empty properties Blighting the country.
5. nama will drain about 30-40
Billion and transfer taxpayers money to international bondholders.
6. The cuts have come too late and are not based on common sense eg mccarthy report largely ignored and government does cuts never reform.
7.Public sector morale has never been lower, contrary to media opinion these affects a huge number of people.
8 People talk of 'most vulnerable in society' but the 1200 in Victorian asylums, 5000 actual homeless and tens of thousands of children of disfunctional parents are ignored by politicians and media.

Can anyone suggest a basis for optimism in the next 6 years? .
I agree with everything you have posted there. The scale of the problem is beyond the comprehension of most of us.
The only basis for optimism is that the debt is not pinned to any of us individually (yet). And if we put our minds to it we can all leave, within the period you have outlined.
Sorry for being so grim.:cry:
 

sauntersplash

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I am quite sick of party politics. I would rather vote for each individual ministry, listen to the merits of each person going for each ministry, rather then Joe Bloggs down the street who is promoted councillor who has lambasted so many civil servants for his "clients" just to reach the electoral quota.
I think the situation you desire is inevitable. As our political model moves away from an ideological notion of service to the state, towards one of national management in a business sense, professional politicians with speciific areas of expertise will arise and constitutional reform regarding Government election will follow them.

Our country and her people have clearly outgrown our current system.
 

Mitsui2

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Our country and her people have clearly outgrown our current system.
Personally I think our country had outgrown our current system a long time ago. Her people, however, have seemed perfectly content to perpetuate it. That's the quandary for any democrat.
 
Last edited:

toughbutfair

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US opinion pollsters use a tracking measure of whether people think the country is moving in the right or wrong direction. Such a poll here, I believe, would show Ireland under Cowen is very much going down the tubes.

Basis for pessimism
1. Those who were in charge, in government, banks and media who oversaw or ignored the then looming economic crisis are still in charge.
2. The main opposition party is ineffective in opposing the status quo eg they pair for bertie, they have not raised that a minister has mislead the High Court and voted for the bank guarantee. It is no place for outsiders.
3. youth unemployment and emigration is a drain on optimism.
4.300,000 empty properties Blighting the country.
5. nama will drain about 30-40
Billion and transfer taxpayers money to international bondholders.
6. The cuts have come too late and are not based on common sense eg mccarthy report largely ignored and government does cuts never reform.
7.Public sector morale has never been lower, contrary to media opinion these affects a huge number of people.
8 People talk of 'most vulnerable in society' but the 1200 in Victorian asylums, 5000 actual homeless and tens of thousands of children of disfunctional parents are ignored by politicians and media.

Can anyone suggest a basis for optimism in the next 6 years? .
Ah come on! Ireland is a lot better than previous generations. Look at Ireland in the 1930s/50s and be glad you weren't around then. People today are spoiled and expect the Ireland of 1994-2008(roughly).

Recessions end, people will emmigrate but they've always done so, many will come back when the recession ends, others will lead happy lives abroad.

It isn't the end of the world.
 

Congalltee

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Ah come on! Ireland is a lot better than previous generations. Look at Ireland in the 1930s/50s and be glad you weren't around then. People today are spoiled and expect the Ireland of 1994-2008(roughly).

Recessions end, people will emmigrate but they've always done so, many will come back when the recession ends, others will lead happy lives abroad.

It isn't the end of the world.
It is not the end of the world and every Irish person - bar the completely marginalised -is better off than their 1916,36,56 or 86 counterpart.

It is the 8 items of gloom identified above and the fact that there is no real basis for optimism in the next 6 years and the utter waste that was the real boom and its property bubble, that is the main sources of concern.

Ireland needs to judge its self by how we treat those at the bottom eg the Victorian asylums, uninspected homes for intellectually disabled, the homeless, the illiterate, the cronically ill, children of disfunctional families, the 720,000 at risk of poverty. These are the people who do not or cannot milk the system. Will their lot improve?
 

GDPR

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US opinion pollsters use a tracking measure of whether people think the country is moving in the right or wrong direction. Such a poll here, I believe, would show Ireland under Cowen is very much going down the tubes.

Basis for pessimism
1. Those who were in charge, in government, banks and media who oversaw or ignored the then looming economic crisis are still in charge.
2. The main opposition party is ineffective in opposing the status quo eg they pair for bertie, they have not raised that a minister has mislead the High Court and voted for the bank guarantee. It is no place for outsiders.
3. youth unemployment and emigration is a drain on optimism.
4.300,000 empty properties Blighting the country.
5. nama will drain about 30-40
Billion and transfer taxpayers money to international bondholders.
6. The cuts have come too late and are not based on common sense eg mccarthy report largely ignored and government does cuts never reform.
7.Public sector morale has never been lower, contrary to media opinion these affects a huge number of people.
8 People talk of 'most vulnerable in society' but the 1200 in Victorian asylums, 5000 actual homeless and tens of thousands of children of disfunctional parents are ignored by politicians and media.

Can anyone suggest a basis for optimism in the next 6 years? .
1. Left to ourselves and our own mismanagement, we’d have a problem, it is the world wide financial situation, over which we had no control or input, that has turned it into a “crisis”

2. If they did as you propose, they would rightly pay a heavy price when next in Government themselves, to the point where Government would be virtually unworkable. There are times, indeed most times, when you need to see further than your own nose.

3. It is, but when the upturn comes and it will come just as suddenly as the downturn, that will change.

4. The relevant number is maybe somewhere between 60 to 120,000, not insurmountable.

5. It is at least equally possible NAMA won’t cost us anything and it will allow the banks to stay afloat, necessary whether you like it or not.

6. The McCarthy report has not been ignored and “not based on common sense” is your opinion, nothing more. The unions will eventually come to the reform table, there is no choice in that.

7. At this point that was unavoidable and they’ll get over it, probably on the way to work every day.

8. “Politicians and the media” do not ignore them. There has been a lot of effort and money put into our social services, particularly over the last ten years, that’s one of the reasons why we now decry the number the of public service workers we have to pay every week.


We needed to get a handle on our own situation and we’ve done that, we just need to follow it through now. The unemployment figure will not improve until the world economy picks up, but it will pick up. We just need to make sure we have our own house in order and we’re ready to take advantage of that pick up when, not if, it happens.
 

Congalltee

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Tonic, do you really believe that nama will make money? Can you name anyone else who believes that?
Lucey, Matthews, kelly say a loss of 30-40 billion.
 

GDPR

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Tonic, do you really believe that nama will make money? Can you name anyone else who believes that?
Lucey, Matthews, kelly say a loss of 30-40 billion.
I didn't say NAMA would make money.

Yes, but so could you.

Lucey was telling us in 2006 that the property bubble would go on and on.

Matthews, I'm not at all sure what his motivation is but I wouldn’t give him much credit. Check out his web site for the examples he gives.

Kelly is a bit of a nut who hates Bankers, developers and Governments in whatever order takes his fancy of a morning, no surprise there.
 

flavirostris

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Tonic, do you really believe that nama will make money? Can you name anyone else who believes that?
Lucey, Matthews, kelly say a loss of 30-40 billion.
tonys believes Bertie Ahern can heal the blind and crippled with a touch of his manilla envelope grasping paw
 

GDPR

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tonys believes Bertie Ahern can heal the blind and crippled with a touch of his manilla envelope grasping paw
I can take on anything you have to say about Bertie, unlike you with respect to your own party. You have shown yourself to be coward without the means to defend your party or the honesty to admit its wrongdoing.
Go away and grow yourself a set.
 


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