What would the EU's approach be to the Irish border if Ireland not the UK was leaving the EU?

ScoobyDoo

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Presumably it would be the same because the EU is a fair and just organisation that has its rules?

So in the case of an Irexit then the EU would be instructing Ireland to ensure regulatory alignment with Northern Ireland, defacto membership of the customs union (under the ruse of protecting the GFA)

The UK is pushing for a soft border by means of electronic checks. The EU has seemingly ruled out this option from day one saying it would not work. They even sent Varadkar to Canada to check out such a system and have him dismiss it out of hand.

The only alternative for Ireland would then be a hard exit on WTO terms.

This scenario would also more than likely apply to any country trying to exit on the continent that shares a land border with the EU.


Earlier this week, on Brexit, when pressed on how the backstop option of NI effectively remaining in the Customs Union would work regarding the internal workings of the United Kingdom, Barnier said that there would need to be customs checks at ports and airports in Northern Ireland, bizarrely then claiming this would not amount to any kind of "border" whatsoever within the UK.

Why then such checks on a land border in Ireland continue to be completely unacceptable remains a mystery. Presumably some kind of guff about it being harder to implement along a 300 mile long land border. Implying that a Trump style wall would need to be built to satisfy the EU on this option.... as has clearly been implemented on every EU - Non EU land border.

After Barnier's strange comments this week, today it seems that the "soft border" option is now not being rejected by the EU on technology grounds, but the line put out through Coveney today is that it would be rejected to "protect the integrity of the single market".

https://www.rte.ie/news/2018/0304/944886-ireland-brexit-coveney/



The EU really does appear to be like the Hotel California, the club you can join but never leave. The message is crystal clear to anyone considering leaving the bloc, there is no negotiation on any future arrangement. Stay in the customs union under EU control or eff on WTO terms.
 


ruserious

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It wouldn't be the same. As it stands, NI could come back to the EU in the event of a United Ireland. Under Irexit, the same would not be true. NI would have to leave the EU.
 

gleeful

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Heres the sequence of events:

1998 - Ireland and UK sign international treaty to keep border open and unpoliced.

1998 - 2016 EU pours money into cross border peace projects. Much of this funding is managed by an EU official called Michael Barnier from his office in Belfast.

2016 - UK promises to keep border open post Brexit.

2017 - May promises to keep border open as part of its stage 1 agreement.

2018 - EU writes a draft legal document codifing the December 2017 agreement

2018 Feb. UK outraged by their own policy on border. May says no PM would ever agree to what she agreed to 3 month earlier.

Its hard to see the EU treating Ireland any differently if it had been us that had lost our minds.
 

Spirit Of Newgrange

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the UK has a massive and well armed military. So the EU are giving them some respect.

The military of ireland is a bunch of hobby-part-timers whose remit is to sit in some farflung sandy dump full of poor people, wear blue helmets, and try not to catch infections from any of the local 'party girls' before returning back to ireland for a taxpayer reward.

An Irexit vote would probably see us get swatted like a fly by Merkel et al.
 

scolairebocht

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The OP asks a perfectly legitimate question, and I think if you take that perspective you can see how wrong it is for the Irish government to be in league with the EU in deliberately destroying the result of a majority vote of the people of the UK. Forget the elites and the media bubble, the ordinary people of the UK who voted Brexit can see this and are understandable vexed.

The general policy of the EU here was outlined in a letter that I heard mentioned, sent I think from the German ambassador to the UK. He apparently stated that the EU policy is to breathe fire and brimstone and humiliate the British government, in order to intimidate the other EU member states, but actually, in league with the real powers in the UK, to destroy Brexit by simply introducing something that is EU membership in all but name. Which will make the UK a vassal state of the EU, which in practice we all are anyway.
 

Tribal

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Forget the elites and the media bubble, the ordinary people of the UK who voted Brexit can see this and are understandable vexed.
.
You must be British as the ordinary Irish voter gets cheesed off with their local politicians showing up at funerals of people they barely knew, whereas in Britain people can go a lifetime without ever meeting a local elected rep.
 

GDPR

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if Ireland was leaving the EU and the UK was remaining, the situation wouldnt be very different.

The EU would want to know how Ireland proposed to treat the Border.

The difference is Ireland would never fart around on the issue, saying "Well we dont want a hard Border, but on the other hand, if it comes to it, so be it..."
 

gleeful

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You must be British as the ordinary Irish voter gets cheesed off with their local politicians showing up at funerals of people they barely knew, whereas in Britain people can go a lifetime without ever meeting a local elected rep.
Indeed. I have personally met about half the ministers in the Irish government. I know one by his first name and he knocks on my door around twice a year.

When I lived in England there was a by election on once and no one knew or noticed.
 

Tribal

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if Ireland was leaving the EU and the UK was remaining, the situation wouldnt be very different.

The EU would want to know how Ireland proposed to treat the Border.

The difference is Ireland would never fart around on the issue, saying "Well we dont want a hard Border, but on the other hand, if it comes to it, so be it..."
True. When you look at how much preparation now goes into referendums there would actually be a plan for leaving the EU to vote on.

May made two huge mistakes, instigating A50 before having a plan and then trying to capitalise on that by calling an election which backfired spectacularly.
 

GDPR

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True. When you look at how much preparation now goes into referendums there would actually be a plan for leaving the EU to vote on.

May made two huge mistakes, instigating A50 before having a plan and then trying to capitalise on that by calling an election which backfired spectacularly.
Leaving the EU, as they now find out, is the most incredibly complex business. Its not like walking out the door and popping the keys back through the letter box.

The Tory dimwits never thought it would happen. The Brexit vote wasnt for leaving the EU because the voters had no idea what that entailed. They simply had a yahoo-moment and now they dont know wtf to do.
 

Ireniall

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Heres the sequence of events:

1998 - Ireland and UK sign international treaty to keep border open and unpoliced.

1998 - 2016 EU pours money into cross border peace projects. Much of this funding is managed by an EU official called Michael Barnier from his office in Belfast.

2016 - UK promises to keep border open post Brexit.

2017 - May promises to keep border open as part of its stage 1 agreement.

2018 - EU writes a draft legal document codifing the December 2017 agreement

2018 Feb. UK outraged by their own policy on border. May says no PM would ever agree to what she agreed to 3 month earlier.

Its hard to see the EU treating Ireland any differently if it had been us that had lost our minds.
No it's not like Hotel California at all. You can leave with no problem. Just don't expect to be able to come back and get the breakfast or take a hot shower or any of that.
 

PBP voter

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Heres the sequence of events:

1998 - Ireland and UK sign international treaty to keep border open and unpoliced.

1998 - 2016 EU pours money into cross border peace projects. Much of this funding is managed by an EU official called Michael Barnier from his office in Belfast.

2016 - UK promises to keep border open post Brexit.

2017 - May promises to keep border open as part of its stage 1 agreement.

2018 - EU writes a draft legal document codifing the December 2017 agreement

2018 Feb. UK outraged by their own policy on border. May says no PM would ever agree to what she agreed to 3 month earlier.

Its hard to see the EU treating Ireland any differently if it had been us that had lost our minds.
The U.N. and the GFA is a farce.

The partition of Palestine broke the UN own charter.

Anybody who supports or voted for the GFA is a Zionist supporter.
 

jams odonnell

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I expect that if Southern Ireland were leaving the EU the Southern Irish would not want a hard border. If the UK or the EU wanted to impose a hard border, that would be a matter for the UK and the EU. Southern Ireland would have absolutely no interest in creating a hard border.

The Southern Irish are a people who enjoying having the crack so to speak.
 
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Cellachán Chaisil

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The OP asks a perfectly legitimate question, and I think if you take that perspective you can see how wrong it is for the Irish government to be in league with the EU in deliberately destroying the result of a majority vote of the people of the UK.
Destroying the result? Nonsense. We're giving them what they wanted, only now they're trying to claim that's not what they want.
 

Lúidín

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PBP Voter:

The U.N. and the GFA is a farce.

The partition of Palestine broke the UN own charter.

Anybody who supports or voted for the GFA is a Zionist supporter.
Paul Murphy is Leo Varadkar
Renua won the last election.
Anyone who eats soft-boiled eggs is a Protestant.
 

PBP voter

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Paul Murphy is Leo Varadkar
Renua won the last election.
Anyone who eats soft-boiled eggs is a Protestant.
Go back to watching cartoons.
 

McTell

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No
Presumably it would be the same because the EU is a fair and just organisation that has its rules?

So in the case of an Irexit then the EU would be instructing Ireland to ensure regulatory alignment with Northern Ireland, defacto membership of the customs union (under the ruse of protecting the GFA)
//.

In that case (us leaving eu, uk staying) the new hard border would be on the northern side.

As things stand, the new hard border will be on our side, but our pols have to be careful to blame the brits for us having to set up this new hard border at all, at all.
 

John Scotus

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the UK has a massive and well armed military. So the EU are giving them some respect.

The military of ireland is a bunch of hobby-part-timers whose remit is to sit in some farflung sandy dump full of poor people, wear blue helmets, and try not to catch infections from any of the local 'party girls' before returning back to ireland for a taxpayer reward.

An Irexit vote would probably see us get swatted like a fly by Merkel et al.
Ah thats a bit harsh.

Our army has shown itself to being very good shoveling snow and even driving sick people to hospital during blizzards
 

Aghalissabeagh

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the UK has a massive and well armed military. So the EU are giving them some respect.

The military of ireland is a bunch of hobby-part-timers whose remit is to sit in some farflung sandy dump full of poor people, wear blue helmets, and try not to catch infections from any of the local 'party girls' before returning back to ireland for a taxpayer reward.

An Irexit vote would probably see us get swatted like a fly by Merkel et al.
Sir, I proudly served in the 'Free Clothes Association' in Donegal in the 80's, I resemble that remark
 


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