What's OUR 4 year plan? The Irish People's Recovery

alonso

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 17, 2006
Messages
2,550
Right, most P.ie old timers know damn well where I point the blame for this epic national failure and know that I have consistently railed against the property bubble, the grimy nexus between politicians and developers that has molested the planning process leading in no small part to the collapse, and the attitude of Fianna Fail in their contempt for the people of this country.

HOWEVER, I want to ask you, every one of you, notwithstanding your lack of responsibility for what's happened, notwithstanding your political allegiances, what exactly you will do in your own lives, in your own jobs, in your own community, how you intend to help this country back on its feet. We all can play a role. It's too late to protest, the damage has been done. We will uncermoniously kick Fianna Fail to touch next year. We may even wipe them out for a generation - some may see that as an end in itself such has been there iron grip on power, almost without interruption, since 1922. But it won't help recovery.

I work in the public sector but without the security that most private sector workers think we all have. We're not all the same! I will gladly take further pay cuts. I will gladly sacrifice whatever pension cuts come my way and will gladly work wherever I am put. Such is the privilege of a wage at the end of the working week in this climate that flexibility, in my view, is nothing compared to the dole queue or the one-way flight.

So in my job I will do whatever I can to prevent any wastage, regardless of how that goes down with others. I will push on with policies in my field that I think can help this society, not merely the economy but the people of Ireland. I will do so at minimal expense and maximum effort. That has always been my mode but I will push that on others and I won't care how many enemies I make. I hope every other person reading this who takes their livelihood from the public purse will do the exact same. Industrial action is anathema to this stance and I will never vote for such an approach.

I will become politically active for the first time in my life in this election with whatever party will radically reform the failed institutions of this failed State. One day soon I may even run myself because, as you know, I have a lot to say

I will get involved in my community to help fix what is broken. I will demand cooperation from my public representatives. Has anyone any ideas?

I will support new Irish enterprise, be it through shopping, going to local music and comedy gigs rather than huge rip-off international shows and spreading the word as much as possible and by encouraging my friends to come along, going to local soccer even more, amateur drama, good pubs with reasonable prices.

If I lose my job, I will work for free or volunteer for as long as is financially feasible and necessary.

The giant caveat, the elephant in the post if you like, is that I am one of the lucky ones. I still have a job. I have no mortgage and no dependents and i am young (ish). So I totally acknowledge other's realities - unemployed, supporting a family, struggling with a mortgage etc.

But we can carry on expressing anger over the bursting of the bubble - and Jaysus it was a bubble from 2002 on so none of the entitlements, increases in pay, pensions, welfare payments etc were actually based in reality. The sooner we learn this the better for all. Sure we can carrying on marching after Saturday and abuse our hateful leaders. But sooner, rather than later, we must use our talents to get us up off the dirt and back in the game.

This country made massive strides forward in the past 2 decades - MASSIVE. This has NOT been lost in the last 2 years. We are better educated than ever before. We have much higher expectations and standards than ever before. This is a totally different country to the wretched island in the 1980's. I firmly believe that we are never going to see the attitudes of that era ever come back again. It is no longer in our national psyche. It is not the attitude of the 20 and 30 somethings that I know and i hope it never becomes it.

And I am sick to the back teeth hearing people say this has become a nasty place to live in since the boom, a haven for arrogance, cockiness and contempt for those in need or those in hard times. Or that we lost our soul in the race for materialism. That is total crap. That is not the country I live in or the city I live in.

So, without gettin all JFK on ye, what do you think you can do for this country? What further sacrifices CAN you make? Can you convert your anger to positive action? No offence to DC, but it's time to shut the laptop and IF YOU CAN, get out there, in your workplace, in your community, your parish, your social life, and help kickstart the recovery.

And it's not an economic recovery we need alone. It's a social and cultural recovery we also need.

Ideas? Thoughts?

Thanks for reading.
 


ifreannach

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 6, 2007
Messages
872
excellent op, i work in the private sector and am lucky enough to be fit willing and able, getting involved in local activities and i will be heard.

i tip my hat to you
 

alonso

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 17, 2006
Messages
2,550
Thanks Ifreannach. I await further reaction with interest. I know this is a politics site but I'm hoping the diversity of posters here would have comments on this vital aspect of a recession, recovery, rather than merely venting anger at all and sundry.
 

Cael

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 19, 2006
Messages
13,304
The privateers cant build up the Irish economy. They dont have the means to do it. Only a massive program of state enterprise can do the job. What we need is more ESBs, Bord na Mónas etc. We need to see privatisation for the criminal scam it is, and build up a democratic economy.
 

Cael

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 19, 2006
Messages
13,304
Thanks Ifreannach. I await further reaction with interest. I know this is a politics site but I'm hoping the diversity of posters here would have comments on this vital aspect of a recession, recovery, rather than merely venting anger at all and sundry.
I agree, just venting anger is the same as saying that we accept that nothing can change. Things can change - if we have faith in ourselves and tell the spivs what to do with themselves.
 

ifreannach

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 6, 2007
Messages
872
agreed cael, make sure everyone is fed and watered and the get on with the work of rebuilding our society to the betterment of all citizens

to think we have healthy folk sitting at home after been told you are irrelevant in the economy and then expecting them, their kids and grandkids to infinty to prop that economy up is twisting reality

the mess of privitisation in order to enrich the few will be cleaned up
 

eoghanacht

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 18, 2006
Messages
32,410
Right, most P.ie old timers know damn well where I point the blame for this epic national failure and know that I have consistently railed against the property bubble, the grimy nexus between politicians and developers that has molested the planning process leading in no small part to the collapse, and the attitude of Fianna Fail in their contempt for the people of this country.

HOWEVER, I want to ask you, every one of you, notwithstanding your lack of responsibility for what's happened, notwithstanding your political allegiances, what exactly you will do in your own lives, in your own jobs, in your own community, how you intend to help this country back on its feet. We all can play a role. It's too late to protest, the damage has been done. We will uncermoniously kick Fianna Fail to touch next year. We may even wipe them out for a generation - some may see that as an end in itself such has been there iron grip on power, almost without interruption, since 1922. But it won't help recovery.

I work in the public sector but without the security that most private sector workers think we all have. We're not all the same! I will gladly take further pay cuts. I will gladly sacrifice whatever pension cuts come my way and will gladly work wherever I am put. Such is the privilege of a wage at the end of the working week in this climate that flexibility, in my view, is nothing compared to the dole queue or the one-way flight.

So in my job I will do whatever I can to prevent any wastage, regardless of how that goes down with others. I will push on with policies in my field that I think can help this society, not merely the economy but the people of Ireland. I will do so at minimal expense and maximum effort. That has always been my mode but I will push that on others and I won't care how many enemies I make. I hope every other person reading this who takes their livelihood from the public purse will do the exact same. Industrial action is anathema to this stance and I will never vote for such an approach.

I will become politically active for the first time in my life in this election with whatever party will radically reform the failed institutions of this failed State. One day soon I may even run myself because, as you know, I have a lot to say

I will get involved in my community to help fix what is broken. I will demand cooperation from my public representatives. Has anyone any ideas?

I will support new Irish enterprise, be it through shopping, going to local music and comedy gigs rather than huge rip-off international shows and spreading the word as much as possible and by encouraging my friends to come along, going to local soccer even more, amateur drama, good pubs with reasonable prices.

If I lose my job, I will work for free or volunteer for as long as is financially feasible and necessary.

The giant caveat, the elephant in the post if you like, is that I am one of the lucky ones. I still have a job. I have no mortgage and no dependents and i am young (ish). So I totally acknowledge other's realities - unemployed, supporting a family, struggling with a mortgage etc.

But we can carry on expressing anger over the bursting of the bubble - and Jaysus it was a bubble from 2002 on so none of the entitlements, increases in pay, pensions, welfare payments etc were actually based in reality. The sooner we learn this the better for all. Sure we can carrying on marching after Saturday and abuse our hateful leaders. But sooner, rather than later, we must use our talents to get us up off the dirt and back in the game.

This country made massive strides forward in the past 2 decades - MASSIVE. This has NOT been lost in the last 2 years. We are better educated than ever before. We have much higher expectations and standards than ever before. This is a totally different country to the wretched island in the 1980's. I firmly believe that we are never going to see the attitudes of that era ever come back again. It is no longer in our national psyche. It is not the attitude of the 20 and 30 somethings that I know and i hope it never becomes it.

And I am sick to the back teeth hearing people say this has become a nasty place to live in since the boom, a haven for arrogance, cockiness and contempt for those in need or those in hard times. Or that we lost our soul in the race for materialism. That is total crap. That is not the country I live in or the city I live in.

So, without gettin all JFK on ye, what do you think you can do for this country? What further sacrifices CAN you make? Can you convert your anger to positive action? No offence to DC, but it's time to shut the laptop and IF YOU CAN, get out there, in your workplace, in your community, your parish, your social life, and help kickstart the recovery.

And it's not an economic recovery we need alone. It's a social and cultural recovery we also need.

Ideas? Thoughts?

Thanks for reading.

Great post.

Have a look at this i have to say i'm just learning about it but it seems like a better system of Gov that we have now.

YouTube - Direct Democracy Ireland - Presentation by Raymond Whitehead - Part 1 of 3

Direct Democracy Ireland
 

alonso

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 17, 2006
Messages
2,550
Cael i may agree somewhat when it comes to public goods but it'll be private enterprise that will foster real economic growth, be it IT, pharma or the export business in general, as well as tourism. The semi-states are a hornet;s nest of privilge, they are the very same elite in some cases as the bankers (ESB CEO on €750,000 FFS)

eoghanacht - I'll look at those links later - I'm not convinced by Direct Democracy but the type of political system espoused by the Irish Democratic party seems quite good.... It's time to start looking at these things
 

ifreannach

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 6, 2007
Messages
872
Cael i may agree somewhat when it comes to public goods but it'll be private enterprise that will foster real economic growth, be it IT, pharma or the export business in general, as well as tourism. The semi-states are a hornet;s nest of privilge, they are the very same elite in some cases as the bankers (ESB CEO on €750,000 FFS)

eoghanacht - I'll look at those links later - I'm not convinced by Direct Democracy but the type of political system espoused by the Irish Democratic party seems quite good.... It's time to start looking at these things
cant agree with you on the private enterprise being the economy driver, if anything it has the opposite affect by fostering a hierarchial system of exploitation. I have worked in the private sector for a number of years and believe me enterprise is not their driving ambition, rather it is individuals within an organisation that will drive the enterprise using good old ingenuity

We need to move away from the mindset that somehow the private sector creates economic growth when all it does is create a two tier system of bosses and plebs
 

Social Conscience

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 27, 2010
Messages
1,273
A very interesting thread alonso and your honesty is a breath of fresh air. It’s obvious right off you are not a politician due to this noble characteristic.

I like you am about to get politically active for the first time in my life in this election but it will be to ask difficult questions of all the guys who are running as I’m apolitical and just don’t trust a word out of any of their gobs.

What has really come to the forefront in my mind over the past month or so stems from a business expo which I attended lately. I work in the private sector and we are export driven (99%). There was a common view among business leaders of F*ck the politicians, we need to do this ourselves. I must say this mentality has struck a chord with me.

If there was one thing I would like to achieve in ‘My 4 Year Plan’ it would be to greater inform the masses on what has gone on and what is happening now. My thinking here is simple. FF will get somewhere in the region of 40 seats at the next election. This is mind boggling and so frustrating. I want the people to rise up and see for themselves the crimes that have been perpetrated on the country and for them to make their decisions based on the real facts and not SPIN.
 

typical

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 8, 2010
Messages
575
But we can carry on expressing anger over the bursting of the bubble - and Jaysus it was a bubble from 2002 on so none of the entitlements, increases in pay, pensions, welfare payments etc were actually based in reality. The sooner we learn this the better for all. Sure we can carrying on marching after Saturday and abuse our hateful leaders. But sooner, rather than later, we must use our talents to get us up off the dirt and back in the game.
What the hell is up with the "we are where we are" meme? It's clear that the politicians, business people and the domestic and international bankers are going to take everything from us that they can, they won't stop until we say stop. The first thing we should do, for our country and it's recovery, is march and protest until they stop screwing the average man for the sake of re-establishing the stupid system that allows the well off to gamble and the less well off to pick up the losses.

It's wonderful that you've decided to be a better person, clap on the back and all, but the governance of this country, politicians in general, are trying to increase the level of lending, reducing the number of banks and nationalising them while doing nothing to tackle the corruption in politics or ensure their future stability. All their efforts are aimed at reinstating the mistakes previously made.

You take your pay cut, your pension cut and facilitate efficiency savings but know that, unless we do something, all that pain is worth nothing to the country because some government twat is going take all those savings and use them to pay for porn in the 6 star hotel they'll stay in when they go visit the IMF head office.

I'm glad you're going do your little bit, every little helps, but if we can't change the course our great and wise leaders are steering then it's just going to be a little more piss in the wind.
 

alonso

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 17, 2006
Messages
2,550
cant agree with you on the private enterprise being the economy driver, if anything it has the opposite affect by fostering a hierarchial system of exploitation. I have worked in the private sector for a number of years and believe me enterprise is not their driving ambition, rather it is individuals within an organisation that will drive the enterprise using good old ingenuity

We need to move away from the mindset that somehow the private sector creates economic growth when all it does is create a two tier system of bosses and plebs
When I talk about the private sector I'm not talking about investment banks, insurance corporations, arms industry, Coca Cola, McDonalds, Nike etc etc. I'm talking about your local butchers, grocery store, small scale IT and manufacturing, hotels and B&Bs, manual labourers
- individuals with ingenuity as you say

As for hierarchy,have you ever seen a hierarchy as pronounced and unmerited as the public where promotion occurs merely on the basis of showing up for a particular number of years?
 

alonso

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 17, 2006
Messages
2,550
What the hell is up with the "we are where we are" meme? It's clear that the politicians, business people and the domestic and international bankers are going to take everything from us that they can, they won't stop until we say stop. The first thing we should do, for our country and it's recovery, is march and protest until they stop screwing the average man for the sake of re-establishing the stupid system that allows the well off to gamble and the less well off to pick up the losses.

It's wonderful that you've decided to be a better person, clap on the back and all, but the governance of this country, politicians in general, are trying to increase the level of lending, reducing the number of banks and nationalising them while doing nothing to tackle the corruption in politics or ensure their future stability. All their efforts are aimed at reinstating the mistakes previously made.

You take your pay cut, your pension cut and facilitate efficiency savings but know that, unless we do something, all that pain is worth nothing to the country because some government twat is going take all those savings and use them to pay for porn in the 6 star hotel they'll stay in when they go visit the IMF head office.

I'm glad you're going do your little bit, every little helps, but if we can't change the course our great and wise leaders are steering then it's just going to be a little more piss in the wind.
I agree 100% with you. I'm not sure where we differ. All you say will only
happen if people get directly involved in wresting control away from those people
 

Niamhsfriend

Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2007
Messages
70
Excellent post, and thread.

What everybody seems to be agreeing on is that it is time for EVERY citizen to become personally responsible for the community they live in, and the way their country is governed. Everything from chosing to buy your produce from a local shop, to volulnteering in the community, to working actively to elimate waste, to becoming informed and politically active.... all these things are within our own control if we insist that they are.

As a nation perhaps we have been much too apt to hand over this responsability to others, and sitting back comfortably down the pub or behind a keyboard to pass comment on how badly theyare managing. This has to stop. Can a nation's psyche be changed???
 

ifreannach

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 6, 2007
Messages
872
When I talk about the private sector I'm not talking about investment banks, insurance corporations, arms industry, Coca Cola, McDonalds, Nike etc etc. I'm talking about your local butchers, grocery store, small scale IT and manufacturing, hotels and B&Bs, manual labourers
- individuals with ingenuity as you say

As for hierarchy,have you ever seen a hierarchy as pronounced and unmerited as the public where promotion occurs merely on the basis of showing up for a particular number of years?
a chap called "jay" on cooper yesterday employed 400 in the restaurant industry and argued for the minimum wage to come down so he could employ more staff, now the question has to be how much was he earning and what kind of car/house he had

the hierarchy in the private is leave your balls at home and the only word you know is yes, i know what you are saying however merit and hard work is not recognised, in reality both the public and private sectors have their failures.
 

typical

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 8, 2010
Messages
575
I agree 100% with you. I'm not sure where we differ. All you say will only
happen if people get directly involved in wresting control away from those people
I don't think we disagree, absolutely, we all need to be involved in the solution.

There are so many people involved in the cozy little political elite in this country that we all need to play a part if there's any hope of tearing down the structure. We need to tackle everyone, from the politicians in the cabinet to the local party members who support them despite their behavior, the local businesses that support and benefit from political corruption, the media that subtly and overtly supports the political mainstream and their own interest, the quangos, the justice system that allows one law for the rich and one law for the poor and the union leaders that look after their own interests over those of their members or the wider populace.

It's impossible for any one of us to do it alone but it should be no problem if we all do our bit.
 

Hazlitt

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 3, 2009
Messages
1,076
How about self-sovereignty! I can rule myself better than someone else can rule me. It would be novel to live in a country where adults are expected to take responsibility for themselves and the consequences of their own actions. That would be nice. Once this government is out, let's default on the debt taken on by these incompetent, crony scumbags. Did the people of the eastern-bloc countries where communism failed honour debt arrangements the previous regime imposed on them? Did they f*ck!
 

iartaoiseach

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 30, 2009
Messages
1,225
It is also time for every citizen to ask any candidate that comes to their door 'what will you do for all the citizens of this country if elected' as opposed to 'what will you do for me and my town at the expense of the country'. a sophisticated electorate will see that if the politicians are elected to run the country properly without the parish pump politics than the benefits will filter down and the potholes will be fixed without the need to elect a gombeen TD of any hue. it is the only way to weed out the likes of Healy Rae, Lowry and assorted excuses for politicians that currently occupy Leinster House. and it's time we stopped blaming the system, it is not great but if the voters broaden their horizons and get rid of the me feinism then the system will change too I think(hope).
It is also up to the electorate to ensure that FF don't even get to 17% of the vote. Imo nothing but wipeout will convince these gangsters that they are not wanted ever.
 

mazzington

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 28, 2009
Messages
378
OP has his head in the sand just like most people. The crisis isn't a result of peculiarly Irish problems, no "reform" will fix it, this is a systemic issue. The system is functioning exactly as intended, there is no problem to be reformed.
 


New Threads

Popular Threads

Most Replies

Top