What's the justification for €64m state subvention to HRI

Disillusioned democrat

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An item on Newstalk this morning caught my attention on the way to work that truly baffled me.

The state subvents Horse Racing Ireland to a tune of €64m and from this HRI stump up 90% of the prize money at racing events.

Is this good use of tax payers money?

Horse racing is the sport of the developers and the connectocracy - not for nothing did the FF tent at the Galway Races become synonymous with cronyism and corruption, but to be honest I didn't realise that this was all sponsored off the back of the taxpayer.
 


Watcher2

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An item on Newstalk this morning caught my attention on the way to work that truly baffled me.

The state subvents Horse Racing Ireland to a tune of €64m and from this HRI stump up 90% of the prize money at racing events.

Is this good use of tax payers money?

Horse racing is the sport of the developers and the connectocracy - not for nothing did the FF tent at the Galway Races become synonymous with cronyism and corruption, but to be honest I didn't realise that this was all sponsored off the back of the taxpayer.
How much is lost through the tax free status of stud fees and whats the economic impact of it all? Sounds ludicrous that 64m of our taxes is also given to the industry and worse again that 90% of it is given in prize money ESPECIALLY when we have one of, if not THE, lowest betting taxes in the world.
 

Hans Von Horn

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Disillusioned democrat

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Betting Tax yields close to €30 million a year. There would be no races without prize money.
So we're down €34m before we even start? That €34m could be used more effectively somewhere else surely?

Sadly spending €64m to earn €30m is about up there with the states logic on economics - like NAMA making a profit!!!!

If people want to enjoy then surely it should cover it's own costs, no?
 

Hans Von Horn

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So we're down €34m before we even start? That €34m could be used more effectively somewhere else surely?

If people want to enjoy then surely it should cover it's own costs, no?
They could spend the money they spend on going to race meetings on imported cars or foreign holidays instead.
 

Socratus O' Pericles

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There's jobs in horse racing,training etc. It's a rural endeavour,keeps people in the countryside, the bloodstock business is huge, it's one of our traditional industries where we can claim to be world class.
 

Disillusioned democrat

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There's jobs in horse racing,training etc. It's a rural endeavour,keeps people in the countryside, the bloodstock business is huge, it's one of our traditional industries where we can claim to be world class.
Sadly it seems all the "industries" we can claim to be world class at cost the tax payer money
 

Orbit v2

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€64 million is a lot of moolah. And I'm always sceptical of these round claims like the industry is worth €1 billion. When you factor in the high profile and political clout of the big names involved in it, I think at least a cold hard look at the 1 billion euro claim is warranted. Even if it is worth that, would it really suffer that much if we took the free money away from horse racing. You could also consider the negative social effects of gambling while you're at it.
 

cricket

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This has been a bugbear of mine for years, a case of the elite looking after the elite.I think some of the cosy arrangements go back to time Haughey was finance minister, maybe even earlier.
 

ShoutingIsLeadership

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There's jobs in horse racing,training etc. It's a rural endeavour,keeps people in the countryside, the bloodstock business is huge, it's one of our traditional industries where we can claim to be world class.


But Michael O'Leary is against State subsidies...no?
 

Plebian

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So we're down €34m before we even start? That €34m could be used more effectively somewhere else surely?

Sadly spending €64m to earn €30m is about up there with the states logic on economics - like NAMA making a profit!!!!

If people want to enjoy then surely it should cover it's own costs, no?
Obviously you know SFA about the horse racing and horse breeding Industry in Ireland.

26 racecourses in Ireland, serving drink and food, people paying for transport, hotel accommodation, owners paying training fees to stables employing thousands of people to feed, train, provide veterinary and administrative services etc.

That's before you get into the breeding industry where this little country has become top of the tree in terms of breeding the very best bloodstock. All those Stallions and broodmares have to be pampered on an array of stud farms and individual other farms. It's a truly staggering world class industry here that brings in lots of foreign money when very rich people from other countries choose to send their bloodstock here to be taken care of. All those Studs, all those feeds, all those vets fees and all the sundry ancillary costs such as the top owners racing hundreds of horses to create champions and their going to sales etc suck money from around the globe into Ireland which is a top exporter of horses.

It's an industry that's a lot more reliable than any of the multinationals here.
 

Disillusioned democrat

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Obviously you know SFA about the horse racing and horse breeding Industry in Ireland.

26 racecourses in Ireland, serving drink and food, people paying for transport, hotel accommodation, owners paying training fees to stables employing thousands of people to feed, train, provide veterinary and administrative services etc.

That's before you get into the breeding industry where this little country has become top of the tree in terms of breeding the very best bloodstock. All those Stallions and broodmares have to be pampered on an array of stud farms and individual other farms. It's a truly staggering world class industry here that brings in lots of foreign money when very rich people from other countries choose to send their bloodstock here to be taken care of. All those Studs, all those feeds, all those vets fees and all the sundry ancillary costs such as going to sales etc suck money from around the globe into Ireland which is a top exporter of horses.

It's an industry that's a lot more reliable than any of the multinationals here.
So why can't it pay it's own way?
 

Man or Mouse

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Obviously you know SFA about the horse racing and horse breeding Industry in Ireland.

26 racecourses in Ireland, serving drink and food, people paying for transport, hotel accommodation, owners paying training fees to stables employing thousands of people to feed, train, provide veterinary and administrative services etc.

That's before you get into the breeding industry where this little country has become top of the tree in terms of breeding the very best bloodstock. All those Stallions and broodmares have to be pampered on an array of stud farms and individual other farms. It's a truly staggering world class industry here that brings in lots of foreign money when very rich people from other countries choose to send their bloodstock here to be taken care of. All those Studs, all those feeds, all those vets fees and all the sundry ancillary costs such as the top owners racing hundreds of horses to create champions and their going to sales etc suck money from around the globe into Ireland which is a top exporter of horses.

It's an industry that's a lot more reliable than any of the multinationals here.
Going Global sold for €12m. Was that the product of this subsidy and who benefitted? Across the road lives another sportsman, Seamus Callinan. What does he get for entertaining 80K people live, plus hundreds of thousands on TV? SFA.
 

Socratus O' Pericles

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I thought it was a new thread about the RHI scandal, we could burn them , I suppose......
 

Plebian

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So why can't it pay it's own way?
The industry does by a multiple, what you are talking about is the HRI subvention for prize money on racetracks. Owning racehorses is like having a ripped pocket, there are huge training costs involved. Having reasonable prize money keeps the owners sucked in and the standard of racing higher. It feeds into the Horse Racing product. Crap prize money would mean that people wouldn't bother going to crap racing.

The reason that prize money has to be topped up by the Govt is because we have the British system of off course bookmakers such as Paddy Power etc instead of having a Tote Monopoly where a share of all the money bet on races goes back into prize money. They have that system in countries such as France, Australia, Hong Kong etc where prize money is way higher than here.

The Govt subvention is the price we pay for not having that Tote monopoly but then again the bookmakers employ plenty of people etc and the product they provide adds a fun element that doesn't exist where the boring Tote has a monopoly.
 

Disillusioned democrat

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The industry does by a multiple, what you are talking about is the HRI subvention for prize money on racetracks. Owning racehorses is like having a ripped pocket, there are huge training costs involved. Having reasonable prize money keeps the owners sucked in and the standard of racing higher. It feeds into the Horse Racing product. Crap prize money would mean that people wouldn't bother going to crap racing.

The reason that prize money has to be topped up by the Govt is because we have the British system of off course bookmakers such as Paddy Power etc instead of having a Tote Monopoly where a share of all the money bet on races goes back into prize money. They have that system in countries such as France, Australia, Hong Kong etc where prize money is way higher than here.

The Govt subvention is the price we pay for not having that Tote monopoly but then again the bookmakers employ plenty of people etc and the product they provide adds a fun element that doesn't exist where the boring Tote has a monopoly.
So as a taxpayer I'm expected to fund gamblers fun....?
 


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