When Was The Theocratic State at its height and When Did It End?

General Urko

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I was speaking the other day to a Loughrea Native approaching the 60 mark and he said by the 1960s it was well on the way! But I certainly recall it being well and truly alive in the West of Ireland as a teenager -

Women treated like shyte.
Children battered around classrooms.
Gay people having a frothing at the mouth hatred directed towards them.
Rednecks subjected people including children to criminal level psychosexual abuse in confession boxes!
Those insane referendums.
Contraception only fully legalised in 1985 in reality.
The women having the Magdellan Concentration camps at the backs of their genetic memories, even if it was not a practical reality - in fairness a Jewish Person living in Israel would have had more of a right to use the shoah as an excuse to control their lives than them!

I think oddly enough, The 8th amendment was the start of the end of it, because it forced a positive change in attitudes towards single women who had children in general!
Also I have only ever heard 2 people use the term 'illegitimate child', both sociopaths, one who is laughably at the level where he is an extreme fúcktard who thinks. he's an alpha male!

Mind you, the recent insane clause 4 of Fitzie's Sexual Offences Bill might indicate that they haven't gone away, you know!:mad:

Another superb thread closely related to this -

http://www.politics.ie/forum/culture-community/228189-what-exactly-has-caused-our-more-relaxed-attitude-towards-sex.html

I would say it was at its height at the foundation of The Taig Republic, with The Blueshirts getting Church support during the civil war, then 1932 and then Dev's Handiwork in the constitution!
It was certainly still strong with Jockey Boys, Casey and Cleary welcoming Pope JP2 and Marchinkus over in 1979!

So when was it at its zenith and when did it fall?
 


brigg

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The 1932 Eucharistic Congress, held in Dublin, is perhaps the start of it proper. The church and the new state had an opportunity to showcase holy Catholic Ireland.
This was soon followed by the anti-Jazz campaigns of 1934.
 

silverharp

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the 70's and 80's were fine for me in Dublin, the only bad run in with a religions person was a priest shouting at me in the confession box because I forgot some prayer and I told him to fck off and never went again. In a school with lots of priest the only violent teacher who wasn't a priest but was some old lad that was going senile and should have retired
 

General Urko

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The 1932 Eucharistic Congress, held in Dublin, is perhaps the start of it proper. The church and the new state had an opportunity to showcase holy Catholic Ireland.
This was soon followed by the anti-Jazz campaigns of 1934.
I think it goes back to treaty side collaboration with the Church in return for its support against the anti-treaty side, during the civil war!
 

General Urko

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The 1932 Eucharistic Congress, held in Dublin, is perhaps the start of it proper. The church and the new state had an opportunity to showcase holy Catholic Ireland.
This was soon followed by the anti-Jazz campaigns of 1934.
I wonder how was common was it to tell a priest to do that?:rolleyes: I had an extremely negative encounter with a blatant fúcking pervert in a confession box in Knock and it led to me missing a day's ************************ing subsequently which is unforgiveabe, but much more seriously was the prospect of him interacting with a younger child! It was literally the most insane conversation I ever had with anyone or more accurately monologue I ever had directed at me, I was 16 at the time and it was in the 80s!
I think the toleration of redneck fúcking gobshytes ended much earlier in 'Dirty' Dublin!
 

Roll_On

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In Dublin in the 1970s my parents make out the Catholic state was broadly ignored by all, condoms were got, gay bars were open, albeit out of site and there were single mothers. The gardaí were either too incompetent and rednecked to actually enforce the law or they had no interest in doing so. That being said every now and then there'd be 'examples made' because we were under redneck rule. Every now and then there'd be a bust on a condom operation or there'd be a raid on a gay bar or so on. I don't think many Dubs were actually punished for these offenses at that time, afterall there would've been war on the streets.

The poor of Dublin would've had the worst of it, the legion of Mary would go knocking on doors and insulting people for example.
 

The Field Marshal

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Men and women are made in the image and likeness of God.
All states are therefore theocratic.

The idea of a non theocratic state is at root absurd.
 

Lord Talbot

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When Was The Theocratic State at its height and When Did It End?

At its height with Devalera and his weird vision of Ireland.

Started waning when Lemass succeeded him and economy started normalising etc.

Still prominent while Devalera was president. (He lived to 90, ugh)

Probably you can call ROI "modern" by the late 70s or 80s, in an Eastern Europe kind of sense of modern. Not theocratic at least.

But if you think its in the past, think again. Education, abortion, medicine. The church/religious morality is still craning its neck into all these areas.
 

blokesbloke

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the 70's and 80's were fine for me in Dublin, the only bad run in with a religions person was a priest shouting at me in the confession box because I forgot some prayer and I told him to fck off and never went again. In a school with lots of priest the only violent teacher who wasn't a priest but was some old lad that was going senile and should have retired
:shock2: 'Tis bould, that!
 

silverharp

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:shock2: 'Tis bould, that!
my mother was outside too, she had that look of displeasure and pride at the same time, never saw that look again :cool:
 

blokesbloke

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It seems to be pretty much dead now, the odd thing like RCC involvement in schools and hospitals remain but fundamentally the majority don't seem to pay much attention to the RCC now.

I wonder when that happened? 1990s? 2000s?
 

Spirit Of Newgrange

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the beginning of 'the troubles' in 1968 gave the tired Catholic Church a big boost.

hate the Church ? well you should see da Brits !

The end of church power was about 1996... Celtic Tiger. Stopping young irish from emigrating caused an upheaval in the old conservative ways. Its not far from the emergence of all the scandals of paedophilia and 1993 Magdalen laundry scandal.

Once they lost the moral high ground, they lost the ear of the public, then they became something between a running joke and public hate figure number one.
 
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Lord Talbot

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Catholic Northern European countries are the odd men out.. Ireland, Poland, Lithuania, etc. Mediterranean religions and cold weather don't mix. Catholicism does best in warm countries, and even better in warm countries with lots of peasants.
 

Analyzer

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The theocratic state did not end.

It merely lapsed before it's transition to a different imaginary pal.

We are following Sweden, in a more compressed, if delayed timescale.

It is astouding the number of times I have quoted Dawkins, Hitchens or Sam Harris, and been lambasted by veneer liberals whose approach amounts to defence of anti-civilization.

The dominant influences in the public debate are Edward Bernays, and Leon Trotsky - both of whom were ruthless, dishonest, selfish, nuerotic opportunists.

But that too will bring about it's own eventual collapse, under the dead-weight of it's lies, missallocations, and destruction.

After which a variant theocracy will take over that will make all others seem like picnics, which will not tolerate dissent.

Thank the progressives for that !
 
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Dame_Enda

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71% in Ireland still believe in God, which is one of the highest in Western Europe (possibly the highest). On the other hand the media are strongly secularist. The evidence from the Marriage Referendum and the 1992 and 2002 Abortion referendums is that public opinion started to grow more secular in 1992 with the passage of the right to travel and information, and the rejection of an attempt to remove suicide risk as grounds for abortion. But the failure of the 2002 referendum tightening up the law was razor thin, and a small number of conservatives on the no side included Dana so that showed the Church still had a lot of influence. I heard (cant find link) that before the legalisation of homosexual acts in 1993-4, only one third in polls were in favour, which is a long way from the 61% voting in favour of ssm in 2015.

On the other hand theocracy overlaps but is different from theocratic-atttudes. The primary school system remains in the grip of foreign Vatican rule.
 

bob3344

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It seems to be pretty much dead now, the odd thing like RCC involvement in schools and hospitals remain but fundamentally the majority don't seem to pay much attention to the RCC now.

I wonder when that happened? 1990s? 2000s?
1990s - when the child abuse cases started to become widely publicised.
 

Dame_Enda

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1990s - when the child abuse cases started to become widely publicised.
I think it began earlier with Bishop Eamon Casey and Annie Murphy. It showed the hypocrisy of the bishops lecturing people on their private lives.
 

razorblade

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Or people grew a brain and saw the whole thing for the brainwashing hocus pocus that it was as all religions are.
 

GDPR

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The theocratic state is still with us - hence the 8th.

I would say the last time people and state were broadly on the same wave-length would have been maybe the 1950s?
 


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