When Was The Theocratic State at its height and When Did It End?



wombat

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I did my Leaving Cert in 1969 and although the religious fervour was in decline, ours was the first class with no vocations to the religious. It may have coincided with the introduction of university grants the previous year? John Charles was unpopular among otherwise devout catholics because of his connection to DeV but there is no doubt that those in power listened to him. I think the bishops overplayed their hand around the pope's visit and subsequently getting the 8th passed. Once the cover up of the child abuse came to light, they had no credit left with a lot of people.
 

Franzoni

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I think the battering in the schools was starting to stop in the 70's ...not so much because of the teachers or Brothers but because of the change in society and people just wouldn't wear it anymore...

I know i went to school with some seriously mental people some of whom went on to make the front pages of the Sunday newspapers and i remember one incident in the mid 70's where the teacher was chased out of the classroom with the pole for opening the windows...:D

I didn't lose much sleep over it as the same cvnt had put my cousin in hospital for two days with double vision a few weeks earlier......he had to sit there bleeding from a gash in his head into one of those old pencil cases as yer man was screaming at him he would give him another crack if he got blood on the floor....!!

I myself was asked to leave early after it was discovered i had a hachet in the schoolbag as i had decided soon after when the heat started coming onto me from the same direction that i wouldn't be a victim....i can honestly say looking back the VEC saved me from going down a bad road even though at the time it didn't feel like it.......as bad as the Labour party turned out to be their members who were teachers in the VEC were never as psychotic as the FF-FG mucksavages i came across with the mad monks.....

When you wonder where some of these gangsters and their families have came from the Christian Bros and Irish society in general have some explaining to do....some of the broken homes and conditions i saw that some of these people come out of was bad enough but when you have to hand your kids over to people screaming and hitting you all day as well over stupid things something eventually had to give....
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
I think the battering in the schools was starting to stop in the 70's ...not so much because of the teachers or Brothers but because of the change in society and people just wouldn't wear it anymore...

I know i went to school with some seriously mental people some of whom went on to make the front pages of the Sunday newspapers and i remember one incident in the mid 70's where the teacher was chased out of the classroom with the pole for opening the windows...:D

I didn't lose much sleep over it as the same cvnt had put my cousin in hospital for two days with double vision a few weeks earlier......he had to sit there bleeding from a gash in his head into one of those old pencil cases as yer man was screaming at him he would give him another crack if he got blood on the floor....!!

I myself was asked to leave early after it was discovered i had a hachet in the schoolbag as i had decided soon after when the heat started coming onto me from the same direction that i wouldn't be a victim....i can honestly say looking back the VEC saved me from going down a bad road even though at the time it didn't feel like it.......as bad as the Labour party turned out to be their members who were teachers in the VEC were never as psychotic as the FF-FG mucksavages i came across with the mad monks.....

When you wonder where some of these gangsters and their families have came from the Christian Bros and Irish society in general have some explaining to do....some of the broken homes and conditions i saw that some of these people come out of was bad enough but when you have to hand your kids over to people screaming and hitting you all day as well over stupid things something eventually had to give....
Basically repressed nutters. The stress had to come out in some way and they weren't allowed to slap the parents or the pinshin might go wesht.
 

tsarbomb

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A theocracy is when the head of state is the head of the established religion of that state.An example of this is Iran. Ireland was never a theocracy.
 

devoutcapitalist

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I think the battering in the schools was starting to stop in the 70's ...not so much because of the teachers or Brothers but because of the change in society and people just wouldn't wear it anymore...

I know i went to school with some seriously mental people some of whom went on to make the front pages of the Sunday newspapers and i remember one incident in the mid 70's where the teacher was chased out of the classroom with the pole for opening the windows...:D

I didn't lose much sleep over it as the same cvnt had put my cousin in hospital for two days with double vision a few weeks earlier......he had to sit there bleeding from a gash in his head into one of those old pencil cases as yer man was screaming at him he would give him another crack if he got blood on the floor....!!

I myself was asked to leave early after it was discovered i had a hachet in the schoolbag as i had decided soon after when the heat started coming onto me from the same direction that i wouldn't be a victim....i can honestly say looking back the VEC saved me from going down a bad road even though at the time it didn't feel like it.......as bad as the Labour party turned out to be their members who were teachers in the VEC were never as psychotic as the FF-FG mucksavages i came across with the mad monks.....

When you wonder where some of these gangsters and their families have came from the Christian Bros and Irish society in general have some explaining to do....some of the broken homes and conditions i saw that some of these people come out of was bad enough but when you have to hand your kids over to people screaming and hitting you all day as well over stupid things something eventually had to give....
In the 1970's my Uncle was in the same class with a friend who was regularly beaten by the Christian Brother psycho. Well the beatings stopped when this individual got his older brother who was involved in the Provos to pay this teacher a visit and basically beat the crap out of him. The Christian Brother was told in no uncertain terms that he would be buried in a bog in South Armagh If his brother was ever picked on again.

Needless to say the beatings stopped and the psycho teacher was never the same again:D
 

Fritzbox

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A theocracy is when the head of state is the head of the established religion of that state.An example of this is Iran. Ireland was never a theocracy.
Or the UK?
 

Windowshopper

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I think it goes back to treaty side collaboration with the Church in return for its support against the anti-treaty side, during the civil war!
It goes back further. Liberal ideas of welfare saw it as best exercised through the auspices of voluntary organisations and churches. The RCC had already guaranteed their control over national schools and had reached a satisfactory solution regarding the university question prior to indepdendence. The gathering strength of the RCC as a social force could be seen to begin after Emancipation and ever further back as the British government tried to co-opt it through the Maynooth grant and various relief acts.

Bob Geldolf has being on how much better off we'd be if we stayed in the British Empire.He ignored the institutional continuity, and the fact that NI was much in a way the most conservative part of the UK.
 

Windowshopper

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The theocratic state is still with us - hence the 8th.

I would say the last time people and state were broadly on the same wave-length would have been maybe the 1950s?
1980s, I think. The church's positions on most issues were shared by a majority or at least a very large minority if discourse around contraception, divorce and abortion are anything to go by.
 

Spirit Of Newgrange

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because the Head of State in the UK is also the head of the Church of England, then those heathen brits are technically living in a theocracy.

but the wishy-washy CofE is more about tea & sandwiches than Fire & Brimstone. Christianity Lite.
 

GDPR

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because the Head of State in the UK is also the head of the Church of England, then those heathen brits are technically living in a theocracy.

but the wishy-washy CofE is more about tea & sandwiches than Fire & Brimstone. Christianity Lite.
The Queen is also the the Monarch of Canada, Australia and New Zealand, as well other countries. Are they theocracies?
 

CatullusV

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I think it began earlier with Bishop Eamon Casey and Annie Murphy. It showed the hypocrisy of the bishops lecturing people on their private lives.
How touching. It began much earlier. The visit of JPII in '79 was in the nature of a last gasp rescue mission according to a Nuncio who discussed it with me. His warm up act in Galloway featured two clerics of whom I guess it could at least be said that they weren't paedophile and were strict in adherence to church teaching on artificial contraception.

The church was certainly losing respect in the '60s
 

sadmal

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It seems to be pretty much dead now, the odd thing like RCC involvement in schools and hospitals remain but fundamentally the majority don't seem to pay much attention to the RCC now.

I wonder when that happened? 1990s? 2000s?
The Bishop Casey affair started that particular open hostility now evident even in school kids. Before the Casey affair became public people still had a certain regard for priests and particularly for Bishop Casey. He was on the Late Show a few times and was relaxed and easy going and had a sense of humour. So there was almost a feeling of betrayal when news broke about him and Annie Murphy.
 

Spirit Of Newgrange

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The Queen is also the the Monarch of Canada, Australia and New Zealand, as well other countries. Are they theocracies?
of course 'technically a theocracy' is the UK where anything goes. Abortion, divorce, Muslim enclaves, Hindu, Buddhist, Catholics, a red-light district in Soho, Porn in every newsagents. If the UK is a real theocracy, then Saudi Arabia is as permissive as Amsterdam.
 

Fritzbox

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Irish 'theocracy' is nothing more than an offshoot of British theocracy - like a lot of things which are said to be 'Irish'.
 

CatullusV

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The Bishop Casey affair started that particular open hostility now evident even in school kids. Before the Casey affair became public people still had a certain regard for priests and particularly for Bishop Casey. He was on the Late Show a few times and was relaxed and easy going and had a sense of humour. So there was almost a feeling of betrayal when news broke about him and Annie Murphy.
His fatherhood was very well known indeed. Long before the media exposed it.
 

GDPR

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The Bishop Casey affair started that particular open hostility now evident even in school kids. Before the Casey affair became public people still had a certain regard for priests and particularly for Bishop Casey. He was on the Late Show a few times and was relaxed and easy going and had a sense of humour. So there was almost a feeling of betrayal when news broke about him and Annie Murphy.
I think it depends on your background. My own family found it hilarious, because we thought Caseys sins were in the hapenny place.

The big one was Father Sean Fortune, who was arrested in NI for paedophilia, got f*cuk all support there, and surprised no one, but whose friends in the South protected him.

Mind you that is one big historical difference between the North and South. The RCC never had any power in the North except what they got by doing deals with the Unionists. Which they were delighted to do, such as the carve up of the education system.
 


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