When will Brian Cowen be held accountable for his economic management 2004-2010?

Congalltee

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An election is a rich tapestry of reasons for vote for or against, Cowen's party. It could also be 2-4 years away.

The Fianna Fail parliamentary party are only concerned with their own re-election. His failure to communicate will be their reason to do him down.

Neither FG nor Fine Gael have put down any motion in the dail of no confidence in him yet, to force the Greens, indos, and wobbly ff backbencher to support his economic treason.

The case against him
1. The banking scandal. Under regulation, over-broad bank guarantee, including anglo, the nama myths.
2. Giving developers months of notice of the intention to pursue them.
3. Lunacy of increases in current spending not related to sustainable current receipts.
4. Allowing a property bubble occur on his watch.
5. Increasing social welfare rates so we are way out of line with nearest neighbours.
6. Not having enough qualified economists in dept of finance.
7.The loss of competitiveness over that period.
8. The increases in the public sector pay bill duping that period.
9. Failure to do anything on pension timebomb then spending its reserves .
10. Signing off on the Irish glass bottle site without a proper valuation.

In my view, for democratic accountability to exist, Brian Cowen should resign now. He may not be corrupt or utterly incompetent, but the buck stops with him. He should go for the right reason..
 


FakeViking

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I must admit I thought his insistence in using a Helicopter to get to Cork today when the rest of us are grounded is typical of the Bozo's insensitivity.
 

Disillusioned democrat

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Really good question - read interesting article about the government in Iceland when they experienced similar events - the parallels were actually amazing: property lead bubble, poor regulation and a handful of "Vikings" that made out like bandits during the boom. They threw out their government immediately and have already completed an investigation that has named names and generated prosecutions. In addition they have accepted their fate better because they feel better empowered by election and referendum, even if they are as badly off or possibly even worse than we are.
 
T

The_Big_Fellow

An election is a rich tapestry of reasons for vote for or against, Cowen's party. It could also be 2-4 years away.

The Fianna Fail parliamentary party are only concerned with their own re-election. His failure to communicate will be their reason to do him down.

Neither FG nor Fine Gael have put down any motion in the dail of no confidence in him yet, to force the Greens, indos, and wobbly ff backbencher to support his economic treason.

The case against him
1. The banking scandal. Under regulation, over-broad bank guarantee, including anglo, the nama myths.
2. Giving developers months of notice of the intention to pursue them.
3. Lunacy of increases in current spending not related to sustainable current receipts.
4. Allowing a property bubble occur on his watch.
5. Increasing social welfare rates so we are way out of line with nearest neighbours.
6. Not having enough qualified economists in dept of finance.
7.The loss of competitiveness over that period.
8. The increases in the public sector pay bill duping that period.
9. Failure to do anything on pension timebomb then spending its reserves .
10. Signing off on the Irish glass bottle site without a proper valuation.

In my view, for democratic accountability to exist, Brian Cowen should resign now. He may not be corrupt or utterly incompetent, but the buck stops with him. He should go for the right reason..
The UK's welfare rates are way below ours, but they are in as bad a shape as we are. Countries like the Nederlands, Germany, Sweden, Finland. The parts of Europe that are having a recession not a collapse have strong social support. In many of them the dole is paid at 80% of final wage. They are stricter on those who spend a life on the dole, which is where the focus should be.

We need to stop following the failed example of the UK. Follow what works people.
 
Last edited:

Malbekh

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To answer your thread title, it'll be at the next General Election.

In terms of accountability for his actions and inactions, he will confined in history under the footnote 'Epic Fail as Finance Minister and Taoiseach'

It's a pity really, I'm reliably informed that he is intelligent, good fun and a wicked mimic. We all know that he can sing and is intensely loyal to friends. In short, he'd be a wonderful companion in any social event.
 

LDF

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An election is a rich tapestry of reasons for vote for or against, Cowen's party. It could also be 2-4 years away.

The Fianna Fail parliamentary party are only concerned with their own re-election. His failure to communicate will be their reason to do him down.

Neither FG nor Fine Gael have put down any motion in the dail of no confidence in him yet, to force the Greens, indos, and wobbly ff backbencher to support his economic treason.

The case against him
1. The banking scandal. Under regulation, over-broad bank guarantee, including anglo, the nama myths.
2. Giving developers months of notice of the intention to pursue them.
3. Lunacy of increases in current spending not related to sustainable current receipts.
4. Allowing a property bubble occur on his watch.
5. Increasing social welfare rates so we are way out of line with nearest neighbours.
6. Not having enough qualified economists in dept of finance.
7.The loss of competitiveness over that period.
8. The increases in the public sector pay bill duping that period.
9. Failure to do anything on pension timebomb then spending its reserves .
10. Signing off on the Irish glass bottle site without a proper valuation.

In my view, for democratic accountability to exist, Brian Cowen should resign now. He may not be corrupt or utterly incompetent, but the buck stops with him. He should go for the right reason..
Where are you getting the four years for an election? The election will be held in 2012 at the latest.

Anyway, the next GE will be Cowen's last event as Taoiseach. He'll probably survive the banking non-inquiry and even when he losses the 3 by-elections FF will not dump him.

I just hope the first action of the new government will be to legislate for a full, open and public inquiry into the economic collapse. That should keep the remnants of the FF party occupied while FG busy themselves with rescuing the economy.
 

Disillusioned democrat

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To answer your thread title, it'll be at the next General Election.

In terms of accountability for his actions and inactions, he will confined in history under the footnote 'Epic Fail as Finance Minister and Taoiseach'

It's a pity really, I'm reliably informed that he is intelligent, good fun and a wicked mimic. We all know that he can sing and is intensely loyal to friends. In short, he'd be a wonderful companion in any social event.

Therein lies the problem - as leader of the country he can't be intensely loyal to his banker and developer friends at the expense of those of us who haven't been lucky enough to become his NBFFs. Cowen's actions and inactions have damaged the country - perhaps irrecoverably - and his ongoing insistence that he has a mandate from the people is, frankly boll*x, but he's committed to his course out of misplaced loyalty.
 

markeys

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Never!

The Greens are too busy shrouding themselves in glorious pensions to think of accountabiltiy or the little people. No move along and respect your betters. There's snails to save somewhere at the expense of massive corruption in the Republic.
 

Congalltee

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Where are you getting the four years for an election? The election will be held in 2012 at the latest.

Anyway, the next GE will be Cowen's last event as Taoiseach. He'll probably survive the banking non-inquiry and even when he losses the 3 by-elections FF will not dump him.

I just hope the first action of the new government will be to legislate for a full, open and public inquiry into the economic collapse. That should keep the remnants of the FF party occupied while FG busy themselves with rescuing the economy.
Under the Constitution a Dail term can be 7 years. Both the Greens and FF will be more than decimated at the election. They have the votes in the Dail and FG would facilitate it by continuing pairing for all absent TDs. It is an outside chance, but don't rule it out.
 

hiding behind a poster

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Under the Constitution a Dail term can be 7 years. Both the Greens and FF will be more than decimated at the election. They have the votes in the Dail and FG would facilitate it by continuing pairing for all absent TDs. It is an outside chance, but don't rule it out.
1) FG do not pair for all absent TDs - nor can you claim to know what FG would do about pairing in a future situation. They have already withdrawn pairings on several occasions in this Dail.

2) The current legislation says the maximum Dail term is 5 years, but the Constitution permits a 7-year term. However for that, new legislation must be passed - but even then, its legally arguable that since this Dail was convened under the existing legislation, any new legislation would only apply from the next Dail onwards, meaning the election would have to be in 2012 at the latest anyway.
 

petervalhala

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An election is a rich tapestry of reasons for vote for or against, Cowen's party. It could also be 2-4 years away.

The Fianna Fail parliamentary party are only concerned with their own re-election. His failure to communicate will be their reason to do him down.

Neither FG nor Fine Gael have put down any motion in the dail of no confidence in him yet, to force the Greens, indos, and wobbly ff backbencher to support his economic treason.

The case against him
1. The banking scandal. Under regulation, over-broad bank guarantee, including anglo, the nama myths.
2. Giving developers months of notice of the intention to pursue them.
3. Lunacy of increases in current spending not related to sustainable current receipts.
4. Allowing a property bubble occur on his watch.
5. Increasing social welfare rates so we are way out of line with nearest neighbours.
6. Not having enough qualified economists in dept of finance.
7.The loss of competitiveness over that period.
8. The increases in the public sector pay bill duping that period.
9. Failure to do anything on pension timebomb then spending its reserves .
10. Signing off on the Irish glass bottle site without a proper valuation.

In my view, for democratic accountability to exist, Brian Cowen should resign now. He may not be corrupt or utterly incompetent, but the buck stops with him. He should go for the right reason..
1. Primary responsibility lies with the boards of the banks, the financial regulator, the central bank, external auditors and credit rating agencies. The bank guarantee was necessary to save the entire Irish banking system from collapse in Sept 08. There are no myths about NAMA, only disinformation.

2. Are you seriously suggesting the developers didn't realise they would have to pay back the monies they owed!??

3. His budgets were in credit, and the spending is what the public wanted, you seem to forget the people elected his party into Government.

4. People's greed, along with irresponsible lending and borrowing caused it; and happened in other countries too.

5. Absolutely agree, between 2001-2006, a sustained period of full employment, welfare was doubled and hence rewarded those who chose not to work

6. As far as I'm aware personnel matters are not under control on the Minister, whoever he can appoint special advisers.

7. We are all responsible for that

8. I agree there were problems with benchmarking, payments were made but reforms were not delivered on. But the public service share the responsibility in this.

9. What precise would you have liked him to have done?

10. He followed advice from senior officials in both his Dept and Environment, also the amount was within already agreed limits
 

petervalhala

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Under the Constitution a Dail term can be 7 years. Both the Greens and FF will be more than decimated at the election. They have the votes in the Dail and FG would facilitate it by continuing pairing for all absent TDs. It is an outside chance, but don't rule it out.
You failed to mention that a five year limit is currently specified by statute
 

Congalltee

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1. Primary responsibility lies with the boards of the banks, the financial regulator, the central bank, external auditors and credit rating agencies. The bank guarantee was necessary to save the entire Irish banking system from collapse in Sept 08. There are no myths about NAMA, only disinformation.

2. Are you seriously suggesting the developers didn't realise they would have to pay back the monies they owed!??

3. His budgets were in credit, and the spending is what the public wanted, you seem to forget the people elected his party into Government.

4. People's greed, along with irresponsible lending and borrowing caused it; and happened in other countries too.

5. Absolutely agree, between 2001-2006, a sustained period of full employment, welfare was doubled and hence rewarded those who chose not to work

6. As far as I'm aware personnel matters are not under control on the Minister, whoever he can appoint special advisers.

7. We are all responsible for that

8. I agree there were problems with benchmarking, payments were made but reforms were not delivered on. But the public service share the responsibility in this.

9. What precise would you have liked him to have done?

10. He followed advice from senior officials in both his Dept and Environment, also the amount was within already agreed limits
Firstly fair play to you for attempting a defence. You deserve credit for putting forward an alternative viewpoint to the obvious - that Cowen was an appalling minister for finance and as taoiseach, has landed the State with billions of unnecessary debt. Unnecessary in the sense that had he done his job when it mattered ie as minister for finance 2004 to 2008, we would not be in the current mess. He should go now for a number of reasons
1. To be held accountable for his errors, incompetence and facilitation of the banking scandal.
2. He is a bureaucrat rather than a national leader.
3. At best, he is capable to tribalism but Fianna fail needs more than that. Certainly the country does.
 

Congalltee

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For the second day in a row, Fine Gael is targetting the weakest link in the Government. brian cowen and his dreadful record in looking after the economy for the last 6 years.

Could it be that Fine Gael has finally woken up that the People want those to blame to pay the price - and Cowen is the best biggest target?

Keep the pressure on.
 

Tomas Mor

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Watching Biffo in the Dail yesterday and again to day, I dont think he is really in charge at all. Yesterday he just read out the legal argument brief supplied to him as to why Boucher was entitled to his million plus.Today he said he just introduced legislation that favoured Fingers. In reply to Gilmore, who was excellent he said he might have met him or IN once when he was Minister for Finance. He said he never heard "rumours"about IN at the time or was never given official advice - must be the only one in town who did not hear the rumours. So a Finance Minister sails along having heard nothing, seen nothing and did nothing. Like his famous brief on the Holy SEE, I think Biffo has completely lost it, and would make Arthur Spring look like a statesman. It is time he was allowed into a room on his own with his favoured bottle of whiskey and a ruger revolver. Todays papers report that even the FF parliamentary party last night was not happy with his lack of fervour on the boucher matter. And that takes some doing !
 

just_society3

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Q1. The banking scandal. Under regulation, over-broad bank guarantee, including anglo, the nama myths.
A. Primary responsibility lies with the boards of the banks, the financial regulator, the central bank, external auditors and credit rating agencies. The bank guarantee was necessary to save the entire Irish banking system from collapse in Sept 08. There are no myths about NAMA, only disinformation.

Rubbish, the minister for finance's primary responsibility is to the taxpayer. Putting the taxpayer on the hook for the banks mistakes was his and Lenihans decision. The bank guarantee has permitted a massive cover-up of various shenanigans that occured at various banks.


2. Giving developers months of notice of the intention to pursue them.
2. Are you seriously suggesting the developers didn't realise they would have to pay back the monies they owed!??

Misses the point completely. Giving developers months of notice has allowed developers to transfer assets to family members.

3. Lunacy of increases in current spending not related to sustainable current receipts.
3. His budgets were in credit, and the spending is what the public wanted, you seem to forget the people elected his party into Government.

Fair enough, but I take it as saying he bought the election.

4. Allowing a property bubble occur on his watch.
4. People's greed, along with irresponsible lending and borrowing caused it; and happened in other countries too.

It happened in other countries, but not to the same extent. Outside of Japan we've had the most inflated property boom, which was deliberately engineered by FF to enrich themselves and their friends.

5. Increasing social welfare rates so we are way out of line with nearest neighbours.
5. Absolutely agree, between 2001-2006, a sustained period of full employment, welfare was doubled and hence rewarded those who chose not to work

This could also be considered buying the election.


6. Not having enough qualified economists in dept of finance.
6. As far as I'm aware personnel matters are not under control on the Minister, whoever he can appoint special advisers.

FFS! Is he responsible for anything then? He sets policy, which should have mandated economic advisors in that department.


7.The loss of competitiveness over that period.
7. We are all responsible for that

Not me. I work for an exporting company who had to trim costs during his period as finance minister. A lot of people at our company buggered off to more highly-paid less productive jobs in the public sector. It was govt policy to make jobs in the public sector more highly paid than private sector, which is lunacy.

8. The increases in the public sector pay bill duping that period.
8. I agree there were problems with benchmarking, payments were made but reforms were not delivered on. But the public service share the responsibility in this.

He's the guy with the money. It's up to him to seek value for it. Unions represent their members, not the taxpayer.


9. Failure to do anything on pension timebomb then spending its reserves .
9. What precise would you have liked him to have done?

I dunno, like maybe save more money?!

10. Signing off on the Irish glass bottle site without a proper valuation.
10. He followed advice from senior officials in both his Dept and Environment, also the amount was within already agreed limits.

Who are these senior officials exactly, and why aren't they being named then? It's far more likely that the deal was done in cahoots with his buddies at the banks and the Galway tent.

Brian Cowen is a complete failure. End Of.
 

LDF

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Cowen was Minister for Finance from 2004 - 2008. I'd estimate that he took home circ €700,000 in that period. There's no doubt that he was one of the best paid Ministers for Finance in the World. What did he do to deserve that level of salary? We were told that the Taoiseach and Ministers had to receive benchmarking increases because they couldn't possibly earn less than their subordinates. However, Cowen now insists that the banking sector wasn't his responsibility - that was up to the Regulator. So Cowen takes the cash but none of the responsibility. It's a joke.

I'd also question the assumption that Neary didn't make the DoF aware of what he knew was going on at Anglo. That's not how the mind of a civil servant operates. A civil servant will always move decisions up the food chain to get cover. Cowen knew exactly what was going on and did nothing about it.
 

loaded32

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To answer your thread title, it'll be at the next General Election.

In terms of accountability for his actions and inactions, he will confined in history under the footnote 'Epic Fail as Finance Minister and Taoiseach'

It's a pity really, I'm reliably informed that he is intelligent, good fun and a wicked mimic. We all know that he can sing and is intensely loyal to friends. In short, he'd be a wonderful companion in any social event.
Its an awful pity sure....poor man, such a good ol soul and great craic at a knees up...what are we doing looking for him to be removed asap sure he's such a banger!!
 

Franzoni

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4. People's greed, along with irresponsible lending and borrowing caused it; and happened in other countries too.
I'm getting a bit sick of this ..trying to promote that we all got greedy,i for one don't own holiday homes or 2nd houses and i know a lot of other people who don't either

this is all a load of BS from FF and their spindoctors trying to whitewash us all as responsible for the mess but as we have seen over the last couple of weeks it's the Fitzers,Fingers,Quinns,Rowans etc of this country who are the real culprits and now we have the bankers retiring at 55 with massive top ups but the rest of us have to work until were 68....

I for one don't think it's only ineptitude on the part of Cowen..i'm coming to the point of view that someone has the goods on him and thats why he won't rock the boat...
 


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