Where is the liberal pro-life perspective?

Breanainn

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 23, 2014
Messages
2,905
By and large, I tend to have a liberal political perspective, voting for various centre-left parties and the same-sex marriage referendum. Yet I also have reservations on the proposed Repeal of the Eighth Amendment, on the grounds that it would seem impossible to frame a piece of legislation on the topic that couldn't be interpreted more broadly. Those currently leading the pro-life campaign, such as Cora Sherlock and Ronan Mullen repel through their conservative ideologies, so surely more centrist campaigners have to emerge on the No side?
 


The_SR

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 11, 2009
Messages
18,036
You can't be liberal and anti abortion in the strict sense of the word.

Most liberal folk who are anti abortion personally would want the 8th repealed on freedom grounds.

The 8th in its current form is barbaric and only the O'Taliban will fight to retain it
 

midlander12

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 29, 2008
Messages
5,903
By and large, I tend to have a liberal political perspective, voting for various centre-left parties and the same-sex marriage referendum. Yet I also have reservations on the proposed Repeal of the Eighth Amendment, on the grounds that it would seem impossible to frame a piece of legislation on the topic that couldn't be interpreted more broadly. Those currently leading the pro-life campaign, such as Cora Sherlock and Ronan Mullen repel through their conservative ideologies, so surely more centrist campaigners have to emerge on the No side?
So what if it is 'interpreted more broadly'? Even the Eighth Amendment was, famously. You can only vote on what's on the ballot paper.

I consider there is a valid debate to be had about whether abortion should be available on demand/request or whether this should be restricted to certain situations (rape, incest, threat to mother's health and severe abnormality of the foetus being the most frequent ones raised). However, the debate in Ireland is going to be whether abortion should be available AT ALL and the pro-life crowd and the RCC even oppose it where the mother's life is in danger (though they would probably try to call it something else in these circumstances). This is a profoundly anti-liberal stance and within that definition of 'pro-life', any hope of a 'liberal perspective' is simply moot.
 

ger12

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 25, 2011
Messages
47,680
You can't be liberal and anti abortion in the strict sense of the word.

Most liberal folk who are anti abortion personally would want the 8th repealed on freedom grounds.

The 8th in its current form is barbaric and only the O'Taliban will fight to retain it
Such a violent act against another human being isn't liberal. It's barbaric, a species that would engage in such acts for convenience and in the name of choice.

My liberal atheist feminist voice isn't alone either.
 
Last edited:

Erudite Caveman

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 27, 2016
Messages
7,329
I simply don't buy this argument that you can't be liberal and anti-abortion. Freedom to abort 'just because' isn't a freedom. There is a time and a place for abortion, but the choice argument? Nah.
 

RadicalJacobin

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 20, 2017
Messages
302
There is no such thing as a liberal pro-eight stance. On this issue you are in the conservative camp. That does't necessarily mean that you must now be conservative on all issues, uniformity and dogmatic thought has never really done anyone any favours.
 

ger12

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 25, 2011
Messages
47,680
There is no such thing as a liberal pro-eight stance. On this issue you are in the conservative camp. That does't necessarily mean that you must now be conservative on all issues, uniformity and dogmatic thought has never really done anyone any favours.
BS.

You can not only be liberal and pro life, you can be atheist and feminist pro life too.
 

GDPR

1
Joined
Jul 5, 2008
Messages
217,782
You can't be liberal and anti abortion in the strict sense of the word.

Most liberal folk who are anti abortion personally would want the 8th repealed on freedom grounds.

The 8th in its current form is barbaric and only the O'Taliban will fight to retain it
I'm against genital piercings personally but I would allow them on freedom grounds.

On what grounds are you against abortion personally?
 

Half Nelson

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 12, 2009
Messages
21,430
By and large, I tend to have a liberal political perspective, voting for various centre-left parties and the same-sex marriage referendum. Yet I also have reservations on the proposed Repeal of the Eighth Amendment, on the grounds that it would seem impossible to frame a piece of legislation on the topic that couldn't be interpreted more broadly. Those currently leading the pro-life campaign, such as Cora Sherlock and Ronan Mullen repel through their conservative ideologies, so surely more centrist campaigners have to emerge on the No side?
What's Cora Sherlock's conservative ideology?
 

RadicalJacobin

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 20, 2017
Messages
302
BS.

You can not only be liberal and pro life, you can be atheist and feminist pro life too.
I'm aware, I would consider myself pro-life. Being pro-life I presume would entail being conservative on THIS issue. Not on others. Just as one can be pro-gay marriage while being pro-life or even vice-versa. We are not in disagreement AFAIK
 

Breanainn

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 23, 2014
Messages
2,905
What's Cora Sherlock's conservative ideology?
Involvement in Youth Defence, and her argument that the public should be exposed to abortion videos is a fallacy - should videos of slaughterhouses be shown in a pro-vegetarianism campaign?
 

nationalsday

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 1, 2011
Messages
3,726
Such a violent act against another human being isn't liberal. It's barbaric, a species that would engage in such acts for convenience and in the name of choice.

My liberal atheist feminist voice isn't alone either.
What about fifty years of Irish women slinking down alone to the B&I ferry because of our own brand of Irish anti-woman taliban regime, though?

Particularly when countries such as Pakistan, Iran, and Afghanistan contemporaneously gave women the free right to have an abortion. Utterly, utterly barbaric and sick law directed against Irish women.

The fact that 92% of the rest of the women on the planet have enjoyed the right to free abortion for the past fifty years and Irish women still have to put on the Irish version of the Burka makes a complete mockery of all Irish feminist assertions to date
 

ger12

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 25, 2011
Messages
47,680
I'm aware, I would consider myself pro-life. Being pro-life I presume would entail being conservative on THIS issue. Not on others. Just as one can be pro-gay marriage while being pro-life or even vice-versa. We are not in disagreement AFAIK
No, being liberal demands defending the weak and powerless like the unborn.
 

tsarbomb

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 25, 2013
Messages
5,018
You can't be liberal and anti abortion in the strict sense of the word.

Most liberal folk who are anti abortion personally would want the 8th repealed on freedom grounds.

The 8th in its current form is barbaric and only the O'Taliban will fight to retain it
Good oul self hatred and plain stupidity proudly on display right here. You should work for an NGO!
 

tsarbomb

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 25, 2013
Messages
5,018
What about fifty years of Irish women slinking down alone to the B&I ferry because of our own brand of Irish anti-woman taliban regime, though?

Particularly when countries such as Pakistan, Iran, and Afghanistan contemporaneously gave women the free right to have an abortion. Utterly, utterly barbaric and sick law directed against Irish women.

The fact that 92% of the rest of the women on the planet have enjoyed the right to free abortion for the past fifty years and Irish women still have to put on the Irish version of the Burka makes a complete mockery of all Irish feminist assertions to date
Translation: "if enough people do something that makes it right".
 

ger12

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 25, 2011
Messages
47,680
What about fifty years of Irish women slinking down alone to the B&I ferry because of our own brand of Irish anti-woman taliban regime, though?

Particularly when countries such as Pakistan, Iran, and Afghanistan contemporaneously gave women the free right to have an abortion. Utterly, utterly barbaric and sick law directed against Irish women.

The fact that 92% of the rest of the women on the planet have enjoyed the right to free abortion for the past fifty years and Irish women still have to put on the Irish version of the Burka makes a complete mockery of all Irish feminist assertions to date
What about the female human beings whose life is ended before they are born? What about their rights? The 8th is progressive in supporting a right to live.
 

SideysGhost

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 30, 2009
Messages
17,360
More than any other issue, this one seems to quickly separate the mocha latte hipster liberals from errrr actual liberals. Tis a good yardstick for sneaking Toryism in other areas.
 

Bertie's Hat

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 6, 2017
Messages
414
The debate will no doubt be dominated by extremists on both side, the middleground won't be represented in the debate and I think a referendum will likely result in the 8th amendment being kept.

Those representing the "Repeal" movement have not been clear when queried what level of repeal they want (abortion on demand? Abortion in case of rape? FFA? Disability? Term limits?) This will need to be carefully nailed down and communicated for a referendum to have any chance of succeeding.

Sent from my SM-J510FN using Tapatalk
 

RodShaft

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 29, 2016
Messages
9,170
Involvement in Youth Defence, and her argument that the public should be exposed to abortion videos is a fallacy - should videos of slaughterhouses be shown in a pro-vegetarianism campaign?
Yes to both.

Information is a good thing.
 


New Threads

Popular Threads

Most Replies

Top