Where is the liberal pro-life perspective?

ger12

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The debate will no doubt be dominated by extremists on both side, the middleground won't be represented in the debate and I think a referendum will likely result in the 8th amendment being kept.

Those representing the "Repeal" movement have not been clear when queried what level of repeal they want (abortion on demand? Abortion in case of rape? FFA? Disability? Term limits?) This will need to be carefully nailed down and communicated for a referendum to have any chance of succeeding.

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They have been very clear, abortion on demand, at any stage. The narrative is one where abortion is a right, healthcare and a matter of choice.

The question of term limits avoided like the plague, it draws attention to the unborn human being whose life is deemed not worthy of their protection ... the old clump of cells shîte.
 


nationalsday

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What about the female human beings whose life is ended before they are born? What about their rights? The 8th is progressive in supporting a right to live.
Why didn't we give those thousands and thousands of Irish women who had to scuttle off like dogs to go to England in pariah status for their abortions over the past half century, and who were viewed as not fit to be spat upon in their own country, the right to make their own decision about their own personal lives, eh?
 

ger12

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Why didn't we give those thousands and thousands of Irish women who had to scuttle off like dogs to go to England in pariah status for their abortions over the past half century, and who were viewed as not fit to be spat upon in their own country, the right to make their own decision about their own personal lives, eh?
This is bodily integrity for 40 weeks trumping whether human beings live or die. I think it's obscene and morally corrupt. Society seems to be sleepwalking into something that diminishes our humanity.

Two lives v's one life and one death. That's not a decision made by the human whose life is about to be ended.
 

ger12

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The degenerates who are pro life are almost always the ones queuing up outside American prisons supporting an execution
That's lazy and untrue.
 

gerhard dengler

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By and large, I tend to have a liberal political perspective, voting for various centre-left parties and the same-sex marriage referendum. Yet I also have reservations on the proposed Repeal of the Eighth Amendment, on the grounds that it would seem impossible to frame a piece of legislation on the topic that couldn't be interpreted more broadly. Those currently leading the pro-life campaign, such as Cora Sherlock and Ronan Mullen repel through their conservative ideologies, so surely more centrist campaigners have to emerge on the No side?
Explain to us your understanding of a liberal pro life perspective.
 

ger12

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GDPR

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Really - I must say, you keep this voice exceptionally well hidden :roll:
This is the new one. "As an old Third Internationale Communist who never gave up after Budapest 1956, I fully support Donald Trump."

"Being a dyed in the wool Republican, I consider that Arlene Foster is the voice of Pearse and Connolly".

"Passionate vegetarians for steak tartare."

And etc and etc, and whatever you are having yourself :D
 

Breanainn

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Explain to us your understanding of a liberal pro life perspective.
One can be a social liberal and still argue that both a mother and an unborn child have an equal right to life - it shouldn't necessarily be dependent on an ultra-montane religious belief.
 

gerhard dengler

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One can be a social liberal and still argue that both a mother and an unborn child have an equal right to life - it shouldn't necessarily be dependent on an ultra-montane religious belief.
I've a friend who is an atheist, and he attends the annual pro life marches (in Dublin and Belfast) along with several of us who are catholic. So that tackles what you refer to as "ultra-montane religious belief aspect"

A social liberal is what?
 

slysnara

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I like Bernie Sanders, I voted for same-sex marriage and I am pro-life. So I assume that qualifies me as having a pro-life perspective from a liberal standpoint.

I find it frustrating that there's only few high-profile people I can think of who are liberal and pro-life.
 

rainmaker

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I've a friend who is an atheist, and he attends the annual pro life marches (in Dublin and Belfast) along with several of us who are catholic. So that tackles what you refer to as "ultra-montane religious belief aspect"

A social liberal is what?
A person cannot be a liberal and still think the law should restrict a woman's control of her own body. The Catholic marchers on the other hand are at least being consistent in holding that belief.

They hold it right alongside the belief that 'contraception is intrinsically evil'. And we wont even get into the Catholic churches track record on caring for all the unwanted children those two beliefs create.
 

GDPR

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A person cannot be a liberal and still think the law should restrict a woman's control of her own body. The Catholic marchers on the other hand are consistent in holding that belief.

They hold it right alongside the belief that 'contraception is intrinsically evil'. And we wont even get into the Catholic churches track record on caring for all the unwanted children those two beliefs create.
No form of liberalism, classical, or otherwise, would accord an embryo equal rights with a born adult citizen or dictate that a pregnant womans choices of heath care should be subjected to the interests of an embryo.

The state would have no role in deciding this.

Authoritarian regimes whether extreme left or right might enforce abortion or deny abortion but a liberal regime would never do that.

So gers question "Where are the liberal voices in support of the 8th Amendment?" is like asking "Where are the Monarchists in favour of a Republic?"

Could this site get any dumber?
 

DexterGreen22

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In my part of the world, I don't live in Ireland, there seems to be an very simplistic (perhaps intentionally convenient) way of viewing the abortion debate in Ireland.

I think that some assume, that being an atheist in Ireland means you must be against abortion, as though the only arguments against abortion in Ireland are on religious grounds.

It goes something along the lines of Anti-Abotion/Pro-Life= devout Catholic or Paisleyite Protestant when in actual fact it is a bit more complicated than that.
 

darkhorse

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A person cannot be a liberal and still think the law should restrict a woman's control of her own body. The Catholic marchers on the other hand are at least being consistent in holding that belief.

They hold it right alongside the belief that 'contraception is intrinsically evil'. And we wont even get into the Catholic churches track record on caring for all the unwanted children those two beliefs create.
Of course they can
A woman can do what she likes with her own body, but should not be entitled to destroy another persons body - even if that body is temporarily physically dependent on her.
 


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