Whither pre-Christian souls?

Socratus O' Pericles

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Catholic cosmology is based on a hatred of human life and a hatred of the world.

Heaven is presented as an ideal (neo-Platonic) realm far removed from this imperfect world. Further, original sin taints us all from birth.... before we have even made a moral decision, we are sinners. The talk is of weakness of the flesh, of sexual control, of a heaven totally unlike this earth.

Not only is the Catholic worldview speculative claptrap, but it spreads a profoundly evil world-hating and life-hating message.

The question of the destiny of pre-Christian souls is not about whether they 'get' to Heaven or not, but why there re human beings out there, so hateful of life, so despising of healthy urges, that they focus on a speculative realm that is everything their reality is not.

This makes a kind of psychological sense. But for them to turn around and speak about the content of their revelation as though it were 'Gospel' (ahem) is profoundly embarrassing. Their comical, cosmological certainty is nothing more than 'monkey see, monkey do.' Ireland produces legions of Catholics, India produces Hindus and Muslims, Thailand produces Buddhists. And yet they are all so certain of the truth of their religion and spirituality.

On an intellectual level, they are all f*ckin' eejits. But life isn't just about the intellect. And it is one of the wonders of the human psyche that an apparently evil philosophy based on hatred of life and hatred of the world can lead to so much good work being done in its name. Go figure.
Absolutely it is what Marx considered to be alienation.
 


Sense 0f Wonder

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:roll:

Only you "forgot" to mention all of them in your opening outburst on this thread.

:roll:
You care more about the respect shown to Catholicism than you do about the fact Catholic cosmology is based on a hatred of this world and a hatred of human life. Obedience and faith triumph over doing the right thing, though don't they? Interesting.

Why did you put quotes around forgot? I didn't forget anything.

I told you why I focused on Catholicism.

Here's some moral advice for you: You should focus less on defending a church associated with pedophilia and world/life-hatred and more on working against such forces.

Here's a couple of questions for you: Why does Christianity (and especially Catholicism) thrive where there is ignorance and poverty? Why is Catholicism growing fastest in the poorest parts of the world and where people are least educated? Is it because knowledge is bad? :)

According to your narrative, Jesus had to carry a cross on his shoulder. All you carry is a chip. Are you really following in the footsteps of Jesus as all good Christians are supposed to do?

Or are you another waffler, dressing themselves up in religion, in order to justify your hatred of the world, misanthropy, and of course human sexuality (the same sexuality that gave rise to your existence in the first place, and that of every priest, Saint, and Pope)?
 

Campion

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Threads about religion on P.ie always take me back to age 15 and my secondary school when a young, radical Jesuit scholastic first introduced us to the concept of biblical criticism and "lite" historical theology. We were instant iconoclasts. This thread, and many like it, read like transcripts of the conversation at table in the refectory that afternoon. Are youse all 15?
 

Lempo

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And I know a joke about it!

Astronauts had finally found and landed on a distant habitable planet with a set of alien habitants. They were even friendly ones and so the astronauts and the habitants were eagerly chatting and changing info of their respective cultures.

Then one of the astronauts hesitantly asked: "Do you know about... Jesus?"

"Yes, of course! He visits here two weeks every years!"

"What...?" asked the bewildered astronaut.

"Yes, he does! It's because when He came first time we have Him this big box of chocolate! ... What did you give Him?"
 

Socratus O' Pericles

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I know a song about that
[video=youtube;u1xrNaTO1bI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1xrNaTO1bI[/video]
So do I:

[video=youtube;jQcNiD0Z3MU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQcNiD0Z3MU[/video]
 

The Field Marshal

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With all due respect FM, you are just another monkey seeing and doing. You probably haven't read Irenaeus' Adversus Haereses have you? CHURCH FATHERS: Against Heresies (St. Irenaeus)

You should read it. Some bits are a great laugh, such as his paraody of Gnostic systems:



From the Catholic Encyclopedia:



Do you even understand Catholic theology? Or are you just aping your ancestors? You are ignorant and yet you claim to know, which makes you a deluded gnostic and a heretic bound for the fires of hell. Bring some marshmallows and I'll see you there :)
Your still all over the place with your fabrication that according to the catholic church before we ever make any moral decision that we are all sinners. That has never been the teaching of the church and only a half educated loon would propose it as such.
As I said before if you want to criticise catholic teaching at least get your facts right. :roll:
 

LamportsEdge

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I don't want to criticise catholic teaching. I find I'm usually appalled by it or amused by it but there's no point in criticising obvious rubbish.

I'm also well aware that the vast majority of its supposed adherents have never read bible or anything factual on the dogmatic origins of the cult.

Basically most of the time the abiding impression from an atheist like me concerning the faithful is that it is like trying to talk a drunk into landing a Cessna from a control tower by appealing to logic and explaining to them over and over again what the instrument panel is.

If they want to loop-the-loop well it is up to them as long as they are over the sea and don't have any kids aboard.
 

Nebuchadnezzar

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I don't want to criticise catholic teaching. I find I'm usually appalled by it or amused by it but there's no point in criticising obvious rubbish.

I'm also well aware that the vast majority of its supposed adherents have never read bible or anything factual on the dogmatic origins of the cult.

Basically most of the time the abiding impression from an atheist like me concerning the faithful is that it is like trying to talk a drunk into landing a Cessna from a control tower by appealing to logic and explaining to them over and over again what the instrument panel is.

If they want to loop-the-loop well it is up to them as long as they are over the sea and don't have any kids aboard.
Well if an under the influence Denzel Washington can manage it....

[video=youtube;xnVNNR6CEOE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnVNNR6CEOE&feature=player_detailpage[/video]
 

Bobcolebrooke

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The OP is both confused and theologically ignorant. Limbo has not been abolished by the catholic church . The concept "baptism of desire" covers the destiny of all pre Christian souls
When did God outline his position on the destiny of unbaptized souls?

Do baptized and unbaptized souls get access in the same degree to God and Heaven?

Why did God wait until 4000 years ago to make his will and commandments known?

Did peoples to whom God and his will were not revealed have a much bigger challenge in living a good life without Gods guidance? Was that fair or just?

How many generations back through our ancestors would God regard our Ancestors to be in his likeness and eligible for entry to Heaven?

Did God put creatures like us on other planets in the Universe?

Did he send his son to save them?
 

The Field Marshal

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43,645
[


Do baptized and unbaptized souls get access in the same degree to God and Heaven?

Why did God wait until 4000 years ago to make his will and commandments known?

Did peoples to whom God and his will were not revealed have a much bigger challenge in living a good life without Gods guidance? Was that fair or just?

How many generations back through our ancestors would God regard our Ancestors to be in his likeness and eligible for entry to Heaven?

Did God put creatures like us on other planets in the Universe?

Did he send his son to save them?
You can find the answers to all your questions on Google. Just type in and press the button.
If you need help just ask.
 

The Owl

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Sep 11, 2011
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2,901
Catholic cosmology is based on a hatred of human life and a hatred of the world.

Heaven is presented as an ideal (neo-Platonic) realm far removed from this imperfect world. Further, original sin taints us all from birth.... before we have even made a moral decision, we are sinners. The talk is of weakness of the flesh, of sexual control, of a heaven totally unlike this earth.

Not only is the Catholic worldview speculative claptrap, but it spreads a profoundly evil world-hating and life-hating message.

The question of the destiny of pre-Christian souls is not about whether they 'get' to Heaven or not, but why there re human beings out there, so hateful of life, so despising of healthy urges, that they focus on a speculative realm that is everything their reality is not.

This makes a kind of psychological sense. But for them to turn around and speak about the content of their revelation as though it were 'Gospel' (ahem) is profoundly embarrassing. Their comical, cosmological certainty is nothing more than 'monkey see, monkey do.' Ireland produces legions of Catholics, India produces Hindus and Muslims, Thailand produces Buddhists. And yet they are all so certain of the truth of their religion and spirituality.

On an intellectual level, they are all f*ckin' eejits. But life isn't just about the intellect. And it is one of the wonders of the human psyche that an apparently evil philosophy based on hatred of life and hatred of the world can lead to so much good work being done in its name. Go figure.
You leave me with a sense of wonder. Perfect post. Just perfect. Thank you. I'm going to learn it off by heart and claim it as my own.
 

Bobcolebrooke

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You can find the answers to all your questions on Google. Just type in and press the button.
If you need help just ask.
This would not be much of a forum if everyone was directed to Google for answers.

Perhaps others might share their opinion or knowledge on my questions.

A great pity that religions do not answer questions of those seeking truths!

Would some planets have longer Sabbaths than others?
 

The Field Marshal

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This would not be much of a forum if everyone was directed to Google for answers.

Perhaps others might share their opinion or knowledge on my questions.

A great pity that religions do not answer questions of those seeking truths!

Would some planets have longer Sabbaths than others?
I would answer your questions were they on topic . They are not . Your plethora of religious questions are totally off topic and can only derail the thread
 

Bobcolebrooke

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What about eating meat on Friday ? Is it still a sin like it was years ago? What about victims of suicide,why were they not allowed be buried in a graveyard in the past but now they are. Why has the pope banned animals from being in cribs? Does he believe that people built stables and mangers for the craic back then and there were not any animals present? What about the donkey that Mary traveled on? Why did people have to fast from midnight in order to receive communion in years gone by,but now they do not.And as my atheist nephew pointed out,if millions of catholics receive communion every week and have been doing so for 2000 years "wouldn't Jesus be eaten up by now?"
Are any of Gods other creatures on other planets prohibited from eating certain foods on particular days of the year on other planets?

Why did Joseph not arrange better accommodation for his heavily pregnant wife?
 

44percent

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Jan 18, 2009
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The OP is seeking an answer within the human construct called Christianity. He wishes to see how that construct reconciles its doctrines of the soul and redemption with those who lived before the salvific atonement brought about by the death and resurrection of the fully divine and fully human person of Jesus the Christ. His OP was answered ages ago in this thread. I find the human capacity to generate such complex intellectual constructs which have no basis in reality and to organise societies around that very interesting, anthropologically speaking. I want the Field Marshal to say why his avatar is that of a German imperialist and militarist who is described in Wikipedia as being seen as a link between the Second and Third reichs.
 


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