Whither Saudi Arabia?


middleground

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 30, 2014
Messages
722
Two months since his death and MbS back striding on the World stage.
 

middleground

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 30, 2014
Messages
722
Jamal Khashoggi case: All the latest updates | News | Al Jazeera

Over 400 private WhatsApp messages sent by Khashoggi last year to a fellow Saudi exile may offer fresh clues to the killing of the dissident journalist, says a report.

In his conversation with Canada-based activist Omar Abdulaziz - accessed by CNN - Khashoggi describes Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman (also known as MBS) as a "beast" and a "pac-man" who would "devour all in his path, even his supporters".

"Arrests are unjustified and do not serve him [logic says], but tyranny has no logic, but he loves force, oppression and needs to show them off. He is like a beast "pac man" the more victims he eats, the more he wants. I will not be surprised that the oppression will reach even those who are cheering him, then others and others and so on. God knows," Khashoggi wrote, according to CNN.

The messages shared by Abdulaziz with CNN include voice recordings, photos and videos. The conversation reveals the two were planning an "online youth movement", CNN reported.

Abdulaziz believes the messages between him and Khashoggi were intercepted by Saudi authorities in August, two months before Khashoggi was killed by Saudi officials inside their consulate in Istanbul.

Abdulaziz told CNN he plans to join a lawsuit against an Israeli company that reportedly invented the software to hack his phone.

He told the American broadcaster that the phone's hacking "played a major role in what happened to Jamal". "The guilt is killing me," he said.
 

Hillmanhunter1

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 9, 2009
Messages
1,968
US Senators Lindsay Graham and Bob Corker deliver their assessment on the complicity of MbS in the murder of Khashoggi after hearing the testimony of the CIA head:

“I went into the briefing believing it was virtually impossible for an operation like this to be carried out without the crown prince’s knowledge. I left the briefing with high confidence that my initial assessment of the situation is correct,” Graham said.

“MBS, the crown prince, is a wrecking ball, I think he is complicit in the murder of Mr Khashoggi to the highest level possible,” Graham added.

US senators: we're certain Saudi crown prince ordered Khashoggi's murder | World news | The Guardian

Corker added that the prince "ordered, monitored, the killing" of the father of four.

"If he were in front of a jury, he would be convicted of murder in about 30 minutes," Corker said.

Saudi crown prince 'ordered, monitored' killing of Khashoggi, Corker says - CNNPolitics
 

Hillmanhunter1

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 9, 2009
Messages
1,968
"Saudi Arabia has strongly rebuked the US Senate, accusing senators of unwarranted interference in the country’s internal affairs for claiming that the Saudi crown prince, Mohammed bin Salman, was behind the killing of the journalist Jamal Khashoggi."
Saudi Arabia rebukes US Senate over Khashoggi resolution | World news | The Guardian

Pity they don't apply the same standard to their own unwarranted interference in the affairs of Yemen!
 

Shpake

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 17, 2012
Messages
5,374
Jamal Khashoggi seems long-forgotten as people busy themselves around Christmas. The Interpol chief who disappeared around the same time seems to have been forgotten even faster:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/07/w...n-hongwei.html

We need an international body that is beyond politics to look after and not forget these disappearances.
Don't want to sound pedantic or that, but my night classes in political science might give you some suggestions on what path you should look down.
I what I gathered was not 100% bullchit, then law pertaining to embassies would have its basis in "International Law"
The origins of this stems from the envoys of different armies negotiating for such items as :
The exchange of prisoners
Suing for peace/ surrender etc.
This explains why an ambasador enjoys such high standing within the country in which he has been posted and how he must formally present his credentials to the Prezz for initiation etc etc. He also enjoys immunity from any crime that he may allegedly commit within the jurisdiction.

While you may be justifiably outraged that the journalist Kasshoggi has disappeared in doubtful circumstances, I can see one good reason why the Turkish government can or should not treat this like an ordinary criminal murder chargé ... nor should or could they treat the Saudi Consulate? Embassy? as anything other than Sovereing Saudi territory.
Why?
Because let's say if they did storm the Saudi Embassy and arrest the lad with the bone saw, this would be a game-changer for International law. Other governments would be kind of "aware" of what had happened and would tailor their behaviour to suit the circumstances... i.e they would do their assassinating work more ą-le - Skripal mode or some other discrete method.

I emphasise that I ain't no lawyer. I am unclear as to the legal niceties between a Consulate/Consul and Ambassador/Embassy.
I'm just using the smattering of law that I have gleaned over the years and a bit of common sense.
Of course your outrage is fully justifiable... but chit happens.
I can only wish that they would do it outside of civilized countries.
(Does that include Turkey?:frown:)
 

middleground

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 30, 2014
Messages
722
Two Turkish journalists have published a book on the Jamal Khashoggi killing. The murderer who cut the body up was apparently comfortable and confident in his abilities to get the deed done while listening to music and drinking coffee:

Afterwards, Khashoggi's body was cut up by Tubaigy using a forensic saw. The book purports that the members of the hit squad, who remained present at the scene, were disturbed and nauseated by the dismemberment.

Tubaigy, however, is heard saying in a recording from before the murder "I've never worked on a warm body so far but I can easily handle him [Khashoggi]", according to the book.
 

Hillmanhunter1

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 9, 2009
Messages
1,968

Hillmanhunter1

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 9, 2009
Messages
1,968
Saudi courts will notify women by text message when they get divorced, in a new regulation that took effect on Sunday, officials have said.

The measure approved by the justice ministry appears to be aimed at curbing cases of men secretly ending marriages without informing their wives.

Saudi Arabia to notify women of divorce by text message | World news | The Guardian

Meanwhile one young Saudi woman seems to be having extraordinary difficulty in leaving Bangkok for Australia - she fears she will be deported back to Kuwait (her point of departure for Bangkok):

"My brothers and family and the Saudi embassy will be waiting for me in Kuwait," the teenager told Reuters.

"They will kill me. My life is in danger. My family threatens to kill me for the most trivial things."


Rahaf al-Qunun: Saudi woman blocks Bangkok deportation move - BBC News
 

Hillmanhunter1

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 9, 2009
Messages
1,968

publicrealm

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 11, 2007
Messages
6,054
It is being reported that Rahaf al-Qunun has been granted refugee status by the UN:
Whither Saudi Arabia? - Page 41

Meanwhile the Saudi response:
"She opened a Twitter account and her followers grew to 45000 within one day. It would have been better if they confiscated her cell phone instead of her passport because Twitter changed everything.”
Taleb Al Abdulmohsen on Twitter:
Indeed.

Very careless of her male guardians to let her have a cell phone in the first place.
 

Clanrickard

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 25, 2008
Messages
32,948
Indeed.

Very careless of her male guardians to let her have a cell phone in the first place.
Women and their damn phones eh? I am still waiting for the feminists to protest outside the Arabian embassy. Looks like I will be waiting.
 

Hillmanhunter1

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 9, 2009
Messages
1,968
Go Canada!

Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau told reporters: "Canada has been unequivocal that we will always stand up for human rights and women's rights around the world. When the UN made a request of us that we grant Ms al-Qunun asylum, we accepted."
Rahaf al-Qunun: Saudi teen granted asylum in Canada - BBC News
 

petaljam

Moderator
Joined
Nov 23, 2012
Messages
30,560
Women and their damn phones eh? I am still waiting for the feminists to protest outside the Arabian embassy. Looks like I will be waiting.
Love how all that matters is protests for some posters. Isn't it more useful for her to actually get asylum, plus the negative publicity for the KSA and Islamic intolerance that this shows up, rather than for there to be a protest outside an embassy?

Who was it who was complaining that the UN wasn't "really" against FGM because link that had been provided wasn't to a declaration in words they wanted to read, but was "just" about the programme the UN was running to help end FGM? Was that you, by any chance?
 

petaljam

Moderator
Joined
Nov 23, 2012
Messages
30,560

Hillmanhunter1

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 9, 2009
Messages
1,968
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/13/world/middleeast/mike-pompeo-saudi-arabia.html

Mike Pompeo landed in Riyadh last night - expecting to meet immediately with Mohammed"Bonesaw" Salman.

"Instead, Mr. Pompeo was pulled abruptly at the airport into a meeting with Adel bin Ahmed al-Jubeir, a senior official who stepped down last month as foreign minister, and Prince Khaled bin Salman, the crown prince’s younger brother."

That's curious.

Meanwhile "The sister of a female activist imprisoned in Saudi Arabia has issued a rare and emotional appeal to Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, pressing him to raise the detention of women's rights activists during his visit to Riyadh this week.

Alia al-Hathloul — whose sister Loujain al-Hathloul is in jail after campaigning to earn women the right to drive — said she was "struck" by the fact that the imprisonment and alleged torture of women activists would most probably not feature on Pompeo’s agenda."


https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/sister-jailed-female-activist-appeals-pompeo-eve-saudi-trip-n958116

I am really puzzled that the women's rights movements in the West have not shown any interest in supporting women's rights activists in the Muslim world!
 

Hillmanhunter1

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 9, 2009
Messages
1,968
Here's a super article from The Oregonian:
Gone: More cases emerge of Saudi students vanishing while facing Oregon charges | oregonlive.com

The essence of the article is this - whenever Saudi citizens commit crimes in Oregon the Saudi government uses the US judicial system to secure bail and then spirits the accused out of the country before justice is administered.

"The Oregonian/OregonLive has found criminal cases involving at least five Saudi nationals who vanished before they faced trial or completed their jail sentence in Oregon. They include two accused rapists, a pair of suspected hit-and-run drivers and one man with child porn on his computer."

This is 5 examples in one State - how many in the whole of the US?

Another recent story reports that Canadian authorities are searching for a Saudi citizen accused of sexual assault after he failed to show up for a court hearing:
Canada: Saudi accused of sexual assault disappears before trial | Saudi Arabia News | Al Jazeera

And what about elsewhere?
 
Top