Who or what are the Bond-Holders ?

SilverLining

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We keep hearing about these bond holders and the bond markets on which they trade. We also keep hearing how sensitive, jitterly, schzophrenic and unpredictable they can be.

Who are they individuals ? What are these organisations ? Are they external to the Euro zone ? Are they unbelieveably internal to the Euro Zone ?

What they have done and contiue doing is an act of agression against Euro. This is an ecomomic war but what is the identity of our attackers ?

Has cowardice or secrecy kept then anominous ? Are they too ashamed to show their faces while profiting from the lives of oridinary people trying to do their best ?

We have a right to know who or what they are. Some of us would like to have a word with them, I am sure.
 
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Foghorn

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We keep hearing about these bond holder and the bond markets on which they trade. We also keep hearing how sensitive, jitterly, schzophrenic and unpredictable they can be.

Who are they individuals ? What are these organisations ? Are they external to the Euro zone ? Are they unbelieveably internal to the Euro Zone ?

What they have done and contiue doing is an act of agression against Euro. This is an ecomomic war but what is the identity of our attackers ?

Has cowardice or secrecy kept then anominous ? Are they too ashamed to show their faces while profiting from the lives of oridinary people try to do their best ?

We have a right to know who or what they are. Some of us would like to have a word with them, I am sure.
You may be one, albeit indirectly. Someone may be holding a bond on your behalf. Bonds are a guarantee and supposed to be low/no risk. Pension companies like Standard Life would probably hold Irish bonds, lending out pension fund money for relatively low risk. Of course other investors buy bonds too.

So there is no real "they", more than we don't recognise who "we" are!

That's the problem with financial services, when you are wondering who "they" are you find out it is "you"!

How would evertone feel if they lost their pensions too?
 

SilverLining

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Yes, I get all this financial world mystique and smoke/mirrors games that it plays. But the way it looks right now, is that our fate might be more predicable if it was put on a gaming table in Las Vegas or Monte Carlo.

That real fact that "they" may or may not be "we" is a demonstation of how preverted this who house of cards is.
 

Foghorn

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Yes, I get all this financial world mystique and smoke/mirrors games that it plays. But the way it looks right now, is that our fate might be more predicable if it was put on a gaming table in Las Vegas or Monte Carlo.

That real fact that "they" may or may not be "we" is a demonstation of how preverted this who house of cards is.
That's a bit severe. It is merely a recognition of the fact that our interests are expressed in different ways. In the same way one could ask who are those mysterious union members, after all we know who citizens are? Or who are the GAA supporters?

Just representation by other means. Nothing underhanded about it.
 

Tea Party Patriot

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Basically a bond holder is anyone who holds a bond. A bond is basically a lone you give to someone in return for an interest rate. It is similar to having money on deposit in a bank only instead of withdrawing your cash you sell your bond on the market. If you don't need cash you wait until the duration of the bond expires and you recieve your cash back in full.

It is in the selling of the bond that the market takes place and to try and explain it simply:
You have a bond worth €100 with an interest rate cupon on it of 5%. Therefore you are paid €5 per year for the duration of the bond.

However if in the interim you need cash you put this bond on the market. If interest rates are now 7% and your bond is paying 5% with four years left to run then you will have to sell your bond for €92.59 in order to get a buyer as they will require a rate of 7%.

Basically anyone can own bonds from banks, pension funds, right down to private investors. They are generally a safe investment for a medium to long term cash surplus and usually pay better interest rates than depositing money in banks. They are also relatively liquid however there is also the risk that you will have to sell at a loss if you need cash during the duration. On the other hand if interest rates dropped significantly you could make a profit.
 

theObserver@hotmail.com

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Yes, I get all this financial world mystique and smoke/mirrors games that it plays. But the way it looks right now, is that our fate might be more predicable if it was put on a gaming table in Las Vegas or Monte Carlo.

That real fact that "they" may or may not be "we" is a demonstation of how preverted this who house of cards is.
Like it or not, our fate is not in our own hands. It never was really. We created entirely man-made economic laws based upon pure Darwinism whereby companies simply need to grow and devour in order to survive. Stay static and you get eaten. Shrink and the share price goes down. Fire 10% of the staff and the share-price rises again. Takeovers, mergers, planned product obsolescence, pointless innovation, endless manipulation of consumers; all this creates havoc on individuals and communities. We have people who buy and sell and gamble on, for example, the currency exchange rate in five years time. Entire companies are built around this practice.

Our best chance for regaining control over our lives lies at the community level. Slash the damn quangos and distribute the money to local councils. We had 20 years of a useless political correct nanny state interfering in our lives. We got economic ruin, soaring crime rates, soaring suicide rates, soaring emigration, widespread depression and a country side littered with ugly generic housing estates. The roads are like a funeral procession every morning with drones crawling towards their offices for another week of drudgery. And they are the lucky ones ! But hey! it's not all bad. We also got iphone and ipods shoved into every ear, large screen flat TVs beaming XFactor into every home and celebrities plastered onto the front cover of every newspaper.

We can do better. We have the technology and we have the resources. :(
 

Foghorn

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Like it or not, our fate is not in our own hands. It never was really. We created entirely man-made economic laws based upon pure Darwinism whereby companies simply need to grow and devour in order to survive. Stay static and you get eaten. Shrink and the share price goes down. Fire 10% of the staff and the share-price rises again. Takeovers, mergers, planned product obsolescence, pointless innovation, endless manipulation of consumers; all this creates havoc on individuals and communities. We have people who buy and sell and gamble on, for example, the currency exchange rate in five years time. Entire companies are built around this practice.

Our best chance for regaining control over our lives lies at the community level. Slash the damn quangos and distribute the money to local councils. We had 20 years of a useless political correct nanny state interfering in our lives. We got economic ruin, soaring crime rates, soaring suicide rates, soaring emigration, widespread depression and a country side littered with ugly generic housing estates. The roads are like a funeral procession every morning with drones crawling towards their offices for another week of drudgery. And they are the lucky ones ! But hey! it's not all bad. We also got iphone and ipods shoved into every ear, large screen flat TVs beaming XFactor into every home and celebrities plastered onto the front cover of every newspaper.

We can do better. We have the technology and we have the resources. :(
That's not true. We do have one card and it plays welll. We could have chosen not to play the game! We could have chosen not to get embroiled by choosing not to buy a house in a market with spiralling house prices. We could have chosen to go without ipods, iphones, flatscreens and every other item that was pushed to us. We could have chosen not to take credit card after credit card so we could buy even more and more.

We could have chosen.............not to play the game.

[I want to add more.

"Nanny state"! We don't have a nanny state. We have an impotent state. The state hasn't worked for a lot of people. It has been forceful enough. Look at the people in Limerick who featured on Bad Fellas. There are communities who were let down by successive Govts not through action but through inaction. In the same way our entire economy was decimated by inaction. Had Government and regulators intervenedd it would have been highly unpopular but then again so was the 1916 Rising when it occured.

We don't need a more neutral state. We already have that. It hasn't cared about most folks for a long time. We need an opinionated state, one with good moral backbone., one that will stand up for communities & individuals alike, one that puts its own interests to the rear and does what it believes in even when it is grossly unpopular. ]
 

MichaelMac

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Who are they individuals ? What are these organisations ?

They are the people who are dictating Irish fiscal policy. This policy was surrendered to them by FF and the Greens who allowed a rag bag of FF supporters in the building and banking sectors to drive this country to bankruptcy. Well, everyone else is bankrupt. Most of them are still on the pigs back with the money and remuneration they salted away. Jesus, a lot of them don't even live here any more.
 

Foghorn

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They are the people who are dictating Irish fiscal policy. This policy was surrendered to them by FF and the Greens who allowed a rag bag of FF supporters in the building and banking sectors to drive this country to bankruptcy. Well, everyone else is bankrupt. Most of them are still on the pigs back with the money and remuneration they salted away. Jesus, a lot of them don't even live here any more.
I don't think that the banks and the builders are necessarily on the pigs back anynore somehow. Most people in Ireland are nearly 115m richer than Seanie Fitz.
 


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