Who pays for NATO/European defence?

silverharp

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Given Trump's position that Europe is "freeloading" off the US , should NATO countries pony up some tribute ? or have European governments voted with their wallets and realise that Russia isn't the existential threat that the USSR might have been?

Does Europe even have a handle on what its defence needs are? or is it just of slow moving rolling ball of history?

The NATO countries not spending enough on defence to warrant Trump using US forces | Daily Mail Online


Revealed, the NATO freeloaders: Why Trump is so infuriated by countries spending less than half their fair share on European defence (and we should be too)
NATO has set its members a target of spending 2% of GDP on defence
France, Germany, Canada and Latvia among countries not meeting target
Trump had earlier suggested US would think twice about coming to the aid of nations who do not meet the recommended spend

Mr Trump provoked alarm earlier this year by saying that the military alliance was created to confront a threat - the Soviet Union - that no longer exists and has called the alliance 'obsolete' and a bad deal for America.

He argues that the US gets too little out of decades-old security partnerships like NATO, which is anchored in Europe but traditionally led by America.

In an interview earlier this year he said he would look to see whether countries had 'fulfilled their obligations to us' before deciding whether to come to their aid in the event of a Russian attack.

 


The Field Marshal

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I dislike your conflation of NATO with Europe.

Not all European countries are members of this thoroughly outdated US creation.
 

Old Mr Grouser

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Given Trump's position that Europe is "freeloading" off the US , should NATO countries pony up some tribute ? ...
Military equipment is very expensive. The US makes most of its own, and profits from its armaments industries.

Most European countries don't have a sizeable defence industry and have to buy their equipment from abroad; very often from the US.


 
D

Deleted member 42179

Russia is not the threat the lying media and the US state department and it's bought and paid for lackies are pretending it is at all.

Jens Stoltenberg is a mad warmongering c*nt trying to protect his cushy job. Merkel is also owned.

The sooner NATO and the sanctions on Russia are gone the better and trade and better relations can resume between natural allies like Germany and Russia leading to an economic boom no doubt.

Of course THIS is exactly what the US do not want and hence why they persist in driving a wedge between european countries and Russia. They fear the economic threat if they don't.

Think of all the good the money wasted on NATO and weapons
can do in our European societies!

The fact is, anyone with two brain cells can see that
the real problem child in modern geopolitics is the US.
The real question is who will protect us all from them!

I think in this regard a lot of people breathed a sigh of relief when Hillary did not
get into office, as the prospect of a NFL in Syria followed by WWIII greatly diminished. Say what you like about Trump (and you are probably right), but he's not half as dangerous as Hillary, the terror of Tripoli, the bitch of Baghdad, the horror of Honduras and the K*nt of Kiev. Hillary was a warmongering sociopath through and through and she was totally pro NATO and OWNED by the military industrial complex. There was never a war she didn't like.

Here's to the death of NATO finally and DETENTE with Russia folks! :p
 
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The Field Marshal

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Russia is not the threat the lying media and the US state department and it's bought and paid for lackies are pretending it is at all.

Jens Stoltenberg is a mad warmongering c*nt trying to protect his cushy job. Merkel is also owned.

The sooner NATO and the sanctions on Russia are gone the better and trade and better relations can resume between natural allies like Germany and Russia leading to an economic boom no doubt.

Of course THIS is exactly what the US do not want and hence why they persist in driving a wedge between european countries and Russia. They fear the economic threat if they don't.

Think of all the good the money wasted on NATO and weapons
can do in our European societies!

The fact is, anyone with two brain cells can see that
the real problem child in modern geopolitics is the US.
The real question is who will protect us all from them!

I think in this regard a lot of people breathed a sigh of relief when Hillary did not
get into office, as the prospect of a NFL in Syria followed by WWIII greatly diminished. Say what you like about Trump (and you are probably right), but he's not half as dangerous as Hillary, the terror of Tripoli, the bitch of Baghdad, the horror of Honduras and the K*nt of Kiev. Hillary was a warmongering sociopath through and through and she was totally opro NATO and OWNED by the military industrial complex. There was never a war she didn't like.
Here's to the death of NATO finally and DETENTE with Russia folks! :p
+1000.

The evil Obama has driven a wedge between Europe and Russia.

Time now for Europes leaders to fully amend relationships with her nearest and potentially most importent economic market.

The USA is entering a period of isolation as it seeks to manage its crippling national debts.


Europes economic salvation lies in ever closer ties with Russia.
 

silverharp

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+1000.

The evil Obama has driven a wedge between Europe and Russia.

Time now for Europes leaders to fully amend relationships with her nearest and potentially most importent economic market.

The USA is entering a period of isolation as it seeks to manage its crippling national debts.


Europes economic salvation lies in ever closer ties with Russia.
Assuming Trump doesn't buckle , the heat should die down with Russia. I don't think "economic salvation" lies with closer ties though , the Russian economy is the size of Italy so its too small but in principle no reason why Europe and Russia shouldn't be good friends to allies, both have a threat of Islam to their internal security and Russia has some influence over Countries like Iran.
 

The Field Marshal

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Assuming Trump doesn't buckle , the heat should die down with Russia. I don't think "economic salvation" lies with closer ties though , the Russian economy is the size of Italy so its too small but in principle no reason why Europe and Russia shouldn't be good friends to allies, both have a threat of Islam to their internal security and Russia has some influence over Countries like Iran.
The Russian state is still largely undeveloped with massive natural raw materials and resources.

Close ties between the peoples of Europe and Russia would be mutually beneficial more so in the future as the USA enters a period of extreme and enforced isolation.
 

silverharp

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The Russian state is still largely undeveloped with massive natural raw materials and resources.

Close ties between the peoples of Europe and Russia would be mutually beneficial more so in the future as the USA enters a period of extreme and enforced isolation.
for sure its good, I know when sanctions kicked in it affected German economic growth so the last thing Europe needs is economic sabotage against itself.
 

The Field Marshal

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for sure its good, I know when sanctions kicked in it affected German economic growth so the last thing Europe needs is economic sabotage against itself.
It is so retrograde of Europes leaders to take their line from the anti- Russian Obama.

This has caused incalculable damage to the EU and to Europe as a whole.

Now that the unintelligent Russian hater OBama will soon be gone and be replaced with a more rational and more intelligent president it is time for Europe
to mend all fences with Russia.
 
D

Deleted member 42179

The Russian state is still largely undeveloped with massive natural raw materials and resources.

Close ties between the peoples of Europe and Russia would be mutually beneficial more so in the future as the USA enters a period of extreme and enforced isolation.
Sadly the US economy depends on war to keep it's economy going. They can't afford to be isolationist any more.
They need constant paranoia and war to boost sales.

Once Trump eventually has this explained to him, he'll likely start to behave the same way as everyone else
that was ever in the white house

unless these US c*nts diversify their economy in another direction, they'll eventually kill us all
 

The Field Marshal

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Sadly the US economy depends on war to keep it's economy going. They can't afford to be isolationist any more.
They need constant paranoia and war to boost sales.

Once Trump has this explained to him, he'll likely behave the same way as everyone else
that was ever in the white house

unless these US c*nts diversify their economy in another direction, they'll eventually kill us all
Im not that pessimistic.

The US is a fine country and properly led is capable of great and noble deeds.


Unfortunately its govt was led into a trap of hating Russia ,itself a left over from the cold war.

I blame the unintelligent OBama for this.


Thankfully he will soon depart.

Trump is not a revolutionary but a revisionist.


This revision will devolve about US economic policy which has been bankupted by military overspend.

This means and Trump had stated as much that the US will resile radically from overseas military spending.
It is this spending which has harmed the the US economic long term prospects.

I think Trump understands this.
 

The Field Marshal

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NATO is not Europe.
Not only is it not Europe it is totally out of date since 1989 and the fall of the Berlin wall and the elimination of the Warsaw Pact communist threat the raison d'etre of NATO.

It has been kept on life support by the USA and its weapons manufacturing industry.
[9 out of 10 of the worlds largest weapons manufacturers helped bankroll the Clinton presidential campaign]

Europe must now forge close economic and political links with Russia, her nearest neighbour.
Trump is going to give NATO the coup de grâce.
 
D

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Not only is it not Europe it is totally out of date since 1989 and the fall of the Berlin wall and the elimination of the Warsaw Pact communist threat the raison d'etre of NATO.

It has been kept on life support by the USA and its weapons manufacturing industry.
[9 out of 10 of the worlds largest weapons manufacturers helped bankroll the Clinton presidential campaign]

Europe must now forge close economic and political links with Russia, her nearest neighbour.
Trump is going to give NATO the coup de grâce.
I do hope so, but I fear it will be just business as usual.
Too much money at stake.

Alas I fear that the world's people will likely remain on the brink of nuclear annihilation
for many years to come so a few sociopaths can get very very rich.

So utterly stupid!
 

The Field Marshal

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I do hope so, but I fear it will be just business as usual.
Too much money at stake.

Alas I fear that the world's people will likely remain on the brink of nuclear annihilation
for many years to come so a few sociopaths can get very very rich.

So utterly stupid!
It is possible that Trump will promote peace & nuclear disarmament.

This benefits everybody especially the USA itself.


But he can not do it alone and needs Russian assistence.

It is vital that European leaders fully support Trump.
 

parentheses

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It is in the interests of America and Britain to keep western Europe hostile to Russia.

Otherwise a huge Eurasian trading bloc/community might develop. The Anglo/Americans might be excluded.

The two World wars and Cold War would have been for nothing.


.
 

The Field Marshal

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It is in the interests of America and Britain to keep western Europe hostile to Russia.

Otherwise a huge Eurasian trading bloc/community might develop. The Anglo/Americans might be excluded.

The two World wars and Cold War would have been for nothing.


.
But that is changing now with the Trump victory.

The new US pesident elect understands that the previous hatred of Russia policy advocated by Obama is defunct since 1989.
Those ignorant US democrats have set back Europe and the world for decades with their backward and retrograde foreign policies and hatreds that caused so much trouble.
 

Fractional Reserve

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The Russian state is still largely undeveloped with massive natural raw materials and resources.

Close ties between the peoples of Europe and Russia would be mutually beneficial more so in the future as the USA enters a period of extreme and enforced isolation.
Trump wants to also tell the Saudi's and Qatari's to fook off and stop acting the bollock with Syria in the ME.
 


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